Author Topic: FOID Card Holders  (Read 15160 times)

Offline Squirrelly85

  • I'm always left of the enemy
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
FOID Card Holders
« on: March 01, 2011, 11:06:16 PM »
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chibrknews-agencies-battle-over-confidentiality-of-registered-gun-owners-20110301,0,3429733.story


I don't understand how people think anymore.  I do believe that there should be strict laws and rules in place in order to own a weapon, to keep the seller, buyer, and public safe.  These rules and laws should span the entire 50 states of this great nation as long as they do not impede on the rights that have been given to us by the constitution.  Obviously this is no easy task and there is much room for debate, but let's think about our arguments logically before we open our mouths.  Obviously no sane person with any semblance of morals wants some lunatic or gang-banger hell bent of creating anarchy amongst innocent people, with whom usually pay the ultimate price.  But I believe (my opinion) that each and every one of us has the "god given right" to defend ourselves if and when we need to.  It is my fondest wish that no one would ever have to use their firearms as a means of defense, unfortunately that is not the world we live in.  And good people get hurt everyday for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  I'm not implying we return to the old west way of life, shooting a guy for cheating at poker.  What I am saying is give people the chance to decide for themselves.  After all that is the American Dream...The ability to be successful or in this case to purchase a weapon without hindrance or fear of prosecution from the government (I know I know, save if for the debate table).


Anyways, this is just an article I found about some lady who wants all FOID card owners to be placed on public record for no clear reason.  Clearly she has no concept of civil liberties or privacy, nor does she acknowledge any kind of coherent argument with which to defend her position.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and provide new Guards for their future security.

The Only Easy Day, Was Yesterday!

Offline Squirrelly85

  • I'm always left of the enemy
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2011, 10:31:25 PM »
I have written letters and voted all the same, unfortunately in Illinois it really is who you know, what you know, and how much money you can throw at it.  This state is a conservative state at heart I think, and guns are a hot bed issue, especially in Chicago.  I do believe that the FOID system is not a bad system, and that there should be some form of checks and balances for the purchase of firearms.  These things are not toys, and I'm sure that you would agree when I say I don't need some hommie G from the hood or mentally altered individual hell bent on shooting someone out of anger, political agenda, or turf.  By registering people who wish to buy a gun or two can both keep them safe and the people around them.  I know that even in my angriest times that I would not shoot someone, or purchase a gun for any malice reason.  But I can not speak for the other people in this country who have other intensions.  I would like it if I could simply walk into a gun shop give them a state ID and buy anything in the store but then again I have no ill intensions when I make a purchase.


As for the political state in which illinois is currently in, well.......no comment.  Unfortunately, I'm simply out numbered.  And, as I said I don't mind the FOID card, however, I don't need my name put on a printed list as if I'm a sex offender or other kind of delinquent.  Because, someone may want to come and take my guns.  And, as mentioned previous, I have no want to go out an shoot someone, however......I will defend myself as that is an actual god given right (my opinion).  But I would like to avoid that situation all together.


I suppose everyone has their opinion on this, as they are entitled to that opinion. 
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and provide new Guards for their future security.

The Only Easy Day, Was Yesterday!

Offline Angryvikingman

  • Senior Writer/Editor/Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 949
  • Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2011, 02:54:47 AM »
Theres an easy fix. Just move.

Offline GhostWarrior

  • I'm very humble, you can ask me.
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3039
  • Benefactor & Life Member NRA
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2011, 08:42:43 AM »
  That seems to be the ongoing advice to situations like this. "Just Move" AngryVikinkg isn't the first nor the last to say that. But here's the thing, My question is "WHY move?".
 
     Letís say for the sake of argument that everyone in an "Anti-gun" dominated states moves to a "Pro-gun" dominated state. Letís see what happens.
 
A) In this economy no one can actually afford to move across town let alone to another state. At least not the "Average American Worker" with or without guns, or even wanting them.
 
B) Lets say ok there is a way and it become very easy and reasonable to do so.
 
C) Where are the movers going to find jobs, housing, and not strain the receiving States Infrastructure, Water, Power, Waste Systems, etc. not to mention Hospitals and Fire Departments and Police Departments?
 
D) Add to that that when you move you leave friends and more to the point family behind. The odds are against your getting to see them more than a week of 2 every year is slim to none. Certainly for the first couple years as you settle into your new job and surroundings. That alone is a great deal of stress to deal with now add that to the above. Easy to say but, not remotely easy to do.
 
Then letís take it one step further and say all the above is a mote point and easily done and it is done, Then what happens? Letís take a look:
 
1) We now have states ENTIRE States that are anti-gun and States that are pro gun. They each and every one then pass seriously overwhelming bills supporting their positions on the topic and the have's arm up, CCW or open carry because the order of the day, Someone from the pro gun state visits home in their old anti gun state. And in the process takes their firearm with them, For some reason the police find out the pro gunner has their weapon with them in a state that does not allow weapons. Guess what? swat teams show up raid the family home and arrest the visiting pro gunner. What happens legally after that does not bear thinking about.
 
2) On the other hand someone from the Anti gun state visits the pro gun state and either mouths off or for some other reasons brings attention to themselves. The anti gunner gets harassed, possibly beaten and then probably arrested for causing a riot and or simple disturbing the peace. Again Legal problems.
 
3) Which then bring us to the States themselves fighting in congress and between bordering states about everything under the Sun. It all ends up becoming a quid pro quo (sp?) and escalates.
 
4) BINGO we now are in the worst case back to the Colonial days when folks left home for a new home because of fighting and repression, Second worse case is that we now have a Revolutionary war between the Government and the States fighting over who's on first. And then there is a WORST case. We get our very own Second War Between the States. Ya, Ya, I know sorta depends on the balance of states how many pro versus how many Anti's as to which side wins that war. And even if outnumbered the pro states many not win even if every citizen is armed if there are enough Anti's to balance things out. On the other hand the Anti's suddenly become Pro because they have to defend their right to Ban firearms. Say what? Where have I heard that? Course in the mean time there is a stack of dead folks mostly Anti gunners that died in the first attacks even if they do win in the end.
 
5) And so on and on. Do we never learn? Not ever? The Revolutionary War, taught us nothing, The War Between the States was for many, many, reasons but basically it was about Statesí rights to choose most things for themselves, which by the way is what started the Revolutionary War if you remember. I could bring up the Great Conch War between the Florida Keys, The State of Florida and the US Government, just to lighten the mood a bit.
 
 
D) Now back to other reasons. What happens to the Economy both Statewide and National when so many people start playing Musical States? You think we got trouble now? HA What we got now is a depression, or in Washingtonise a "Deep Recession", If the economy didn't collapse out right it would be a miracle the likes of which have NEVER been seen before. It would rival the "Big Bang" (um ok Theory).

So no I really donít think moving is a good answer, quick simple but not easy.
So what to do? What everyone says, Register! VOTE! Ya itís as big a pain in the butt as Jury Duty but if you donít vote you DO NOT get to natter on about whatís wrong with the country. And donít hand me that tired old saw about why vote nothing changes and all the politicians are the same. I am so Sick and tired of hearing that! Why do you think they are all the same? BECAUSE PEOPLE DO NOT VOTE, so of course they are all the same we put them there by not voting and we are too damn lazy to vote them out! So ok you are a member of some Organization that is fighting for our Civil and Constitutional Rights, oh wow! Big Whoop! Always the way to go, let others do the work and just throw money at them just so they donít actually ask you to DO something to help that doesnít require money and a stamp to sent it in with.
Everyone here on this forum and EVERY other single forum about weapons in general all talk, the talk, but very, very few actually walk the walk.  I once walked the walk and talked  the talk but got disillusioned by all the groups infighting and back stabbing and power grabbing, Itís human nature and it will never change, but even if I no longer get out and hand out fliers or go door to door like the old days I will vote. And absent voting gives you NO excuse to not vote! So donít hand me any garbage you donít have time or canít yada, yada.
Oh ya I actually only meant to say ďSorry AG I respectfully disagree  :laugh:  ď but I never could say something in 5 words when 500 words wouldnít make it more confusing.  :cool:
 
If at first you don't succeed, then Skydiving is not your sport.

Welcome Home every Veteran and active Service personnel and Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your sacrifice

Offline Angryvikingman

  • Senior Writer/Editor/Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 949
  • Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2011, 11:17:48 AM »
LOL! GW I get the point, but as a person who's always lived in a fairly "Common Sense" state, I've never really had to deal with the hardships that other states have faced over race, unions, jobs, anti-gun, protestors, ect. Nothing like that ever happens in TN, thats why I tell everyone who is of like mind to move here. With so many like minded people, we'll always find common ground and do whats best for everyone. Our legislature is filled with "good ole boys" who actually help each other, and more often than not, actually do whats best for the people. Yeah, it gets kinda nuts around election time, but never too bad. I've actually talked to my elected officials about 2nd and 10th amendment rights, and all of them I have talked to are always for them. I know a LOT of peple who've moved here from other states, most notably when GM opened the Saturn plant in Spring Hill, and all of them said they're never moving from here. They like it better. So many people have moved to my area recently from california because the place is just nuts. The laws, and the people, and they got tired of it and moved here. Tennessee is bringing in tons of business and its hard not to find a job. May not be making $20 an hour, but you can't always get everything you want. As a matter of fact, some friends of mine from Iowa who came and visited, said they were moving here after only spending 4 days down here. They're already selling their house and saving for the move. I know this totally sounds like a "Come to TN" commercial, but the same can be said of any decent state. Like alabama, georgia, even kentucky is ok. This was a nice ramble. Hope you enjoyed it. LOL!

Offline GhostWarrior

  • I'm very humble, you can ask me.
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3039
  • Benefactor & Life Member NRA
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2011, 11:47:03 AM »
LOL Well at least you called it a ramble,  :laugh: Most anyone else would have said it was a rant, or even an unintelligent rant that made no sense.  :cool: Yes I have been to TN, and I once thought about moving to the upper north west corner of NC. I have hike the Blue Ridge Mountains, the Tennessee valley the Smokey mountains and loved every second and most everyone I meet was great. I Grew up in Louisiana and Mississippi so ya I've seen "Good Old Boys" do their thing. Your state and Arizona and others have things pretty much in hand and that's great. One reason I can't just move since this id Florida and it would take most of forever to sell it and not for what it was worth, and I'm not alone in that. You have a wonderfull state and for some if not all of your new arrivals will or can find work. The trick is getting the rest of the country into the same grove.
If at first you don't succeed, then Skydiving is not your sport.

Welcome Home every Veteran and active Service personnel and Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your sacrifice

Ripster

  • Guest
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2011, 11:55:42 AM »
To move and/or become disgruntled with the situation is not a viable solution ,I agree,but I include a very appropriate witticism.--- Sometimes , to hang in and fight for your concerns is frustrating but to actually achieve desired results is very satisfying. "If at first you don't succede",------------give up and/or move ?
.
.
............
 Let Someone Else Do It tm is every intelligent person's philosophy of life. There are plenty of things that if we stop doing them for a long enough time, some other sucker with less patience and a greater sense of responsibility will do them instead. This is an established law of our social reality, and it is our obligation to uphold it
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 12:01:59 PM by Ripster »

Offline GhostWarrior

  • I'm very humble, you can ask me.
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3039
  • Benefactor & Life Member NRA
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2011, 12:40:29 PM »
Never give up the good fight, sometimes you win, and sometimes you don't. But either way as long as you tried your best, did your best, Win, loose or draw, you walk away head high. Running away from anything only gets you shot in the back. Very undignified way to go out.
If at first you don't succeed, then Skydiving is not your sport.

Welcome Home every Veteran and active Service personnel and Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your sacrifice

Offline Angryvikingman

  • Senior Writer/Editor/Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 949
  • Si Vis Pacem Parabellum
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2011, 01:28:06 PM »
Its called a tactical retreat. LOL!

Offline GhostWarrior

  • I'm very humble, you can ask me.
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3039
  • Benefactor & Life Member NRA
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2011, 01:59:54 PM »
lol I knew someone was going to say that  :tongue:
If at first you don't succeed, then Skydiving is not your sport.

Welcome Home every Veteran and active Service personnel and Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your sacrifice

Offline Squirrelly85

  • I'm always left of the enemy
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2011, 08:41:41 PM »
I agree, I;m only 25 and have just begun my career that I love, the likelihood of me being able to get the same type of job in another city given the current economical situation is slim to nil (it took 4 years to get to my position and salary now).  Also, I have just recently purchased a house that I really like and plan on investing in.  I love firearms both for recreation/hunting and as a hobby, but I wouldn't get up and leave the state simply because they require me to have a FOID card.  As I stated earlier, I have no idea what will be actually achieved by putting me on a list along with everyone else who has a FOID card.  But if that's what they want then whatever, I;m not gonna get a red ass about it.  And if someone would like to visit my home to partake in my fine and ever growing collection, they are more then welcome to.  I have signs in my yard yard both front and back that depict my feelings on the subject.

I can still buy as many guns as I want, whenever I want, in the state also.  And I have a special little store I can visit now, where I have made good friends with the sales manager who is willing to get me whatever I need (legally), for a very good price with no overhead.  I guess, thats what you get when you spend a few thousand dollars in a month at his store.

I think that if you live in a state that doesn't offer the sale of firearms or simply in select areas, and they are that big of a deal to you, then I guess the only option is to move, but honestly I can't see them being more important then your family and friends.  Also, there is nothing stopping you from taking a trip out of state to purchase a firearm.  They have the same rules and standards that require them to ID check you and all that mumbo-jumbo as any other state does through the ATF and FEDs and all the other alphabet boys.  I make a yearly trip to tennessee or kentucky to pick up guns that the shops in my area (up until my new friend came along) wouldn't/couldn't sell.  I still have to go through the same paperwork and wait times as I would in Illinois, i just pay less for the gun(s).

I would love to see Illinois allow a CCW license to be issued.  That would rock my world.  I would pay for it to, to be totally honest.  I work in a very rough area and to have the added security of knowing that I could defend myself against an illegal gun toting gangster would make me feel better.  But once again, not something I would move out of the state for, considering that there are ways around that to.  Buy getting specific certificates and take courses in my line of work, I can legally carry off-duty just like cops are allowed, so it would be simply a matter of education and time.

[attachment deleted by admin]
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and provide new Guards for their future security.

The Only Easy Day, Was Yesterday!

Ripster

  • Guest
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2011, 01:00:33 AM »
 "it would be simply a matter of education and time." -Quote from Squirrley85
.
.
........Sounds kinda like a cure for most all ills ------doesn't it ? :wink:

Offline Squirrelly85

  • I'm always left of the enemy
  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 91
  • I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2011, 02:05:25 AM »
You can't fix stupid....-Ron White
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and provide new Guards for their future security.

The Only Easy Day, Was Yesterday!

Offline epsanto2

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2013, 09:04:36 PM »

I would love to see Illinois allow a CCW license to be issued.  That would rock my world. 

[attachment deleted by admin]


How is your world rocking tonight Squirrelly85?  Illinois just went CCW!!!

".... keep your finger off the trigger and the pointy end down range"

Offline Rodolfo Fierro

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 637
    • TRAIN 2 SHOOT
Re: FOID Card Holders
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2013, 05:09:25 PM »
Illinois may implement the new law this century, but I'm not sure about Chicago.