Author Topic: 9mm or .40 S&W  (Read 8117 times)

Cheb

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9mm or .40 S&W
« on: December 30, 2011, 11:37:51 AM »
As stated in an other post of mine this will be my first fireman. I'm planing on getting a cc permit after taking some courses and enough  practice.

 I was wondering if I should just start with the .40 S&W which I would opt to carry or should I start with the 9mm? The cost difference in ammo isn't a big deal to me. I was planning on getting  the 9mm to start with and when I was ready to carry get the .40 S&W, but a friend of mine suggested I start with what I plan on carrying. Wondering what your thoughts were?

Logan

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Re: 9mm or .40 S&W
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2011, 11:51:00 AM »
I looked into various types of ammo quite a bit before I made a decision. The .40 is of course slightly bigger and a bit more powerful. Some say it is harder to shoot than either the 9mm or the .45 ACP.

Massad Ayoob said "Splitting the difference between 9mm Parabellums ... and the .45 ACP of the classic Colt and others, the .40 was recognized as a compromise that could solve debate and get past controversy so trainers could concentrate on the tactics and marksmanship under stress that would really decide whether their officers lived or died."

I personally carry a 9mm, I can carry more rounds that way. Will I ever need that many rounds? I certainly hope not. Most police departments  use the .40. NYPD uses 9mm.

Honestly, with modern cartridges (as opposed to the hardball of the old days), I don't think it makes all that much of a difference. Someone said that it's the difference between being hit by a Honda Civic at 90mph and being hit by a pickup at 70mph. What counts most is shot placement and what determines that is how well you can shoot.

Go with a gun you like and can shoot fast and well. If you can't get CZs, try some other gun that has both .40 and 9mm like a Glock 19 and 23.

Offline Rodolfo Fierro

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Re: 9mm or .40 S&W
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2011, 01:53:43 PM »
The cost of a 250 rd box of 9mm Remington is $50.   The cost of a 250 rd box of 40 S&W is $80.  The shipping on the 40 is a few cents more also if you order it on line.  That is a 60 % increased cost for the 40 S&W or you can shoot 60% more of the 9mm.   It really does add up when you think about it.   

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: 9mm or .40 S&W
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2011, 03:32:59 PM »
             I have always (well ok ALmost allways) carried a 9mm, for pretty much the reasons Logan mentioned. I was lucky in that my department let us carry whatever we could qualified with, within reason. If we qualified with more than one type or model, then we had to specify which we would perfer to use, and that became our duty weapon. Also we qualified with a 12 Ga we could carry that either locked to the dashboard, locked to a rack in front of the cage, or mounted on the underside of the trunk lid. (BTW if you ever do mount a Shotgun to the trunk lid, make sure you upgrade the hydraulics on the lifters. Anyone in the Special Tactics Squad (These days referred to as SWAT) obviously got to use what ever it took to do their job.
 
           I still to this day carry my CZ 75 Pre-B as my primary CC weapon, but I change it out now and again depending on where I'm going and what I am going to be doing or involved in. ( I haven't done the LEO gig in a lot of years as such but I am still qualified as a First Responder and SAR and I keep my certs up to date). I also carry 2 spare mags for each weapon I have on me. And like Logan I hope I am never in a postion where I need that much ammo, cause if I am then somehow I stumbled into a war zone and they forgot to post signs. But on the other hand why take chances?  :cool:
 
          Yes I have CZ .40's, in fact I have pretty much the entire set of CZ .40's; ColtZ40 (the very first CZ .40 anything) the CZ .40 B, the CZ .40 P, and a transitional CZ75 .40 cal that may be one of only a couple in the US. I have both carried and fired them all. They all hurt like hell.
 
          I believe I am correct in saying that a 9mm will travel further than a .40 and still retain injury or death potential, where as a .40 will drop off faster and lose some or most of it's impact at distance the 9mm can reach. Also you have as Logan mentioned a max or 30 rounds as apposed to a max of between 30 rounds and 120 rounds depending on the size of the mags you have and how stupid you feel like looking with a 30 rnd mag hanging out the bottom of your pistol, along with being way to paranoid to be allowed out in public in the first place. Not to mention the weight, and lack of concealable :laugh: 1 mag of 16 to 18 in the weapon and max 2 spares of 16 to 18 rounds each should get you out of pretty much most shoot outs. Or at least give the LEO's time to show up and save your tuckis.
 
        OH ya nearly forgot. Keep in mind that 9mm is one of the most common semi auto rounds around, and the odds you finding more of them if you run out is better than finding .40's. Unless you can get the weapon also of course and know how to use it.
 
       So all that said and no doubt way more than you wanted to know, I would suggest the 9mm. It's what I have been carrying for the last 40 years as my primary CC. A 9mm will kill you just as dead as a .40 will, you have better odds of finding ammo for it, and it's easier to conceal, (maybe not but I won't argue the point) and it's quicker to reacquire your target than a .40 is.
 
       If I got that whole 9 vs 40 distance and lethality thing wrong, someone please feel free to correct me. I have a feeling I'm going to hear about this in some manner anyway. :angel:
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Skillet42565

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Re: 9mm or .40 S&W
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2011, 11:14:15 PM »
The .40 is the answer to the question that nobody asked.  Seriously, all modern handgun cartridges will penetrate to roughly the same depth, and expand to roughly the same as well.  Might as well get whats cheaper, and get more practice time in.


9mm will allow you to more rapidly and accurately, as the guns are more manageable with recoil.



Offline GM4469

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Re: 9mm or .40 S&W
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2011, 12:49:39 AM »
9mm...
2 reasons.
cheaper, easier to find ammo both in range/practice ammo and SD ammo

CZ75 was designed around the 9x19. .40SW came later, gun adapted to cartridge.
while .40SW CZs do run, always believe go with the one the platform was designed around.
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Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: the story the 10 mm and .40 S&W (My version anyway)
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2011, 09:34:14 AM »
      This started out on topic but ended somewhere else (Gee what a suprise :embarrassed: ) So you can just skip over this reply, unless you are bored out of your mind and have nothing better to do, like comtiplate  your navel or watch grass grow. Paint drying might be more intresting alos. But after going through all the trouble of typing it I ain't gonna delet it. 
 
 
 I totally agree with Skillet42565 and GM4469. I would add to Skillet's statement the the 10mm is also an answer to a question never asked. Back in the stone age when I was on the job, there was a big to do about restricting how big/powerfull a round the LEOs should be allowed to carry. Back then it was either .38, One of the first standardized pistols through out the LEO community border to border I believe. Then there came about the .357, which was a pretty nice weapon since you could use either .38 or .357 and it gave you more options. But before the .357's came along Police used .38 and .45 almost exclusively. A very many police were veterans of WWII or Korea and had .45 and they knew them and preferred to use them. The I lose track of whether the .44 or the 9mm hit town first, and folks went wild as they say. Dirty Harry pretty much made the .44 especially the .44 auto mag "de rigor" for macho cops to carry. The problem soon became a race for the hottest rounds, .38 Plus the .38 plus P then the .38 Plus P plus and while those were becoming hotter and hotter all the other Calibers also increased in power, and trust me the .44 didn't need anymore help but got it anyway.
 
         Which leads more or less to my point. What happened was as the rounds got hotter and hotter, they started punching through the bad guy and hitting things and people they weren't supposed to. There by making more than a few seriously miffed Citizens and bleeding hearts (oh lorde, killing the bad men is one thing but killing them with that much force just isn't fair to the poor little criminal) Why that's just plain cruel and unusual punishment. Ammo started getting designated in 3 categories. Wound/kill, Maim/kill, and kill. You hit someone with a 240 gr gas checked .44 anywhere at all and if they don't bleed out first the shock alone is enough to kill some folks. All of this outrage against "Police Brutality" lead a couple of companies to try a couple new ways to make money. The 10 mm hit first (pardon the Pun) as an alternative to the 9mm. It was a tad fatter and a bit slower so punch through was/is minimized because the body has more mass to slow and stop the round, and since it wasn't going as fast it also helped the body to absorb the impact, but it also appeared to have slightly more knock down power than the 9mm as so everyone was happy. But that still left the folks carring .44's and .45's out in the cold and most departments were forced to ban those caliber's, Until the .40 came along! After a while a lot of LEO's had been complaining bitterly that the 10mm didn't have the power they needed to go up against the bad guys that had no restrictions about what they got to use, and wanted to go back to at least carrying the .45 just be more carefull where you aim or down grade the charge just enough that the round wouldn't penatrate a person through and through. But the bleeding hearts and their Political lap dogs said Nay-Nay, and someone came up with the brilliant idea of what if we made a .40 cal? It would be almost the same as a .45,  just a little smaller and slower than the .45 and less chance of punching through the bad buys. Everyone said yes we do need to protect our LEO's against those nasty crooks but not go back to the old school cave man days of yore. And the LEO's were more or less happy because they now had a round bigger than the wuss 10mm, and had the knock down that could level the playing filed and the public was ok with them using it. Oh Praise be, say it ain't so, the civilians are going to lets us have at least a small chance to protect their homes and persons! Yay!
 
      And all was happy in Stupidville, whole lines of new pistols were designed and made and redesigned and up graded all around the .10 and the .40 not to mention a couple dozen Ammunition Companions making money by making and selling the ammo. After a couple years  though since no one but the LEO's and wannabe LEO's and people that wanted to be "cool" were about the only ones using the .10 and the .40 while all the rest of the folks with an once of brain matter kept right on using the same guns they always had, and that btw included more than a few bleeding hearts that got the LEO's weapons and ammo changed. You would not believe how many of those wack jobs shoot Competition, but go completely nuts when talking about self defence and insist the LEO's are there to protect us. etc.

        And there ya go the story of the .10 and the .40 and there is a lesson to be learned in there somewhere I'm pretty sure, but I can't remember where I left it when I was typing this. Oh ya, When you start letting the Bureaucrat's, Politions, and the Sheep decide how they are going to be protected and at what level of force. Then the public loses every single time, along with the LEO's, the bad guys keep getting bigger and better, and the rest of us decide to protect ourselves and our families instead of relying on the people that are paid to protect us and the people we elected to see that we are protected, because we know that those folks are Frustrated by being hobbled, and the others are to stupid to save them self's as long as they get to control everything else.

        We also need LEO's that learned to be cops on the street running the departments and let the ones that learned how to be "Good Law Enforcement Officers" in colleg and got a degree. work the streets and see how long their trust in their professors and what they "Learned" about good police work lasts. Problem is that the college kids are running things and telling the veterans they are wrong about how they do their job, despite the fact that the proof the college kiddies and their so call expert professors are wrong is staring them straight in the face.
       And yes, yes, yes! I know ok!  Some, a very few LEO's ALL over the world have abused their powers, and so have the Federal Agencies, and the Government, and all it's happy small minded Bureaucrats.  Don't go pointing fingers at every LEO and start off making him the Bad Guy. 99% really and truely want to help you. And you know what if he or she is a bad cop it's proberly because some, many people didn't vote, which means the same folks keep running things and they ain't running things any to well, and we just let them.

VOTE DAMNIT!! 10 mins or two hours, it's literally worth your life to take the time to vote.
eeek! I think I did it again. So sorry, I swear I try to keep on topic. And almost all of that was on topic, wasn't it? We were talking .10 and .40s? right? Right?  :embarrassed:
« Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 09:51:06 AM by GhostWarrior »
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b5.5dan

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Re: 9mm or .40 S&W
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2012, 09:54:18 PM »
Have to add this...
 [size=78%]


People have added more good info (or opinion/hyperbole) than I could, so I will just add that I am a pistoleer who basically started shooting seriously with a .40, HATED it, sold 3 firearms, and now shoot 9mm and love it. People who go on and on about "knockdown power" and that the 9mm is "weak" are usually compensating for something (as Shrek would say). Someone was quoted as saying that it's the difference between being hit by a Honda at 70 or a dump truck at 70. Neither of those are correct. The law of intertia says that if it would feel like getting hit by a Honda at 70, the recoil would feel about like getting hit by a Prius at 45. Doesn't work that way. And anyway, I wouldn't want to get run into by a kid going 20 on his skateboard, and THAT would be enough to take a man off of his feet...


Go for what you like. Go for what you shoot well. I would recommend 9mm, but just as many people will tell you that "pistol rounds are all weak and you only use them to get to your rifle".

Gah... I allowed myself to get sucked into a "9mm vs. x or y" conversation...  :sad: :sad: :sad: [/size]

Offline Rodolfo Fierro

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Re: 9mm or .40 S&W
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2012, 04:31:02 AM »
Go for what you like. Go for what you shoot well. I would recommend 9mm, but just as many people will tell you that "pistol rounds are all weak and you only use them to get to your rifle".   :sad: :sad: :sad:
Rifle ?    Naaay,  go for your shotgun,     Just look at the size of the ammo !

f4t9r

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Re: 9mm or .40 S&W
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2012, 10:26:12 AM »
with ammo prices what they are. I have 9mm and 45 so I don't have the money to take on a 40. I am happy with the 9