Author Topic: New Gun Jams  (Read 2569 times)

Offline Canuckhab

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New Gun Jams
« on: May 05, 2012, 09:03:33 AM »
Good Morning
I'm in need of some consolation. I just purchased a new TS Chechmate. The look, feel, grip and slide were wonderful as I dry-fired the gun. However, frustration set in as I went to fire the weapon at my local range. Used regular 115 grain 9mm ammo. Every single shot failed to eject the casing. It would jam and get caught in the port as the slide would recoil. I called CS-usa and they told me that the gun was made with competition in mind and that I would have to shoot "competition loads" if I wanted to you the gun with the compensator. Then they suggested a change to a lighter load recoil spring might be helpful. Or change the compensator to the regular sighted bushing and it should shoot just fine.
My desire is to shoot with the compensator and I can't seem to get 9mm +P FMJ in my area so I started by changing the 14 lb recoil spring to a 9 lb spring. Went to shoot and the best the gun would do is 3 continuous rounds and then jam as before. I just purchased some 9mm ammo with 124 grain and will try those momentarily... Then adjust to an 8 lb spring if that doesn't work. Short of changing the compensator does anyone have any good suggestions? Does this problem negate itself the more the gun is used and is "worn" in? What are these "competition loads" and where can one purchase them? (I do not want to load myself.) Or should I just give up and return the gun? Thanks for any constructive input.

Online GM4469

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2012, 09:22:09 AM »
if the gun is brand new it may need a small period of break in. Some competition gun, especially with compensators sometimes just need a few rounds through them to seat all the parts and then they will run. I had one experience with a compensated 38 super gun and for the first 200 rounds it was single shot. then on a magazine it began to run and from then on it was trouble free. Made me a believer that some guns just need a break-in period. Just my experience though.

the lighter spring is good advice. as factory ammo just doesn't have enough velocity to run the comp and reliably have enough energy to run the slide also. We had one in the shop that would do the same thing and when we changed the recoil spring it ran perfectly with factory fiochi 9mm ammo.


On competition loads..the gun with compensator is designed to run at USPSA/IPSC major power factor.
for USPSA that is 165PF which is calculated by velocity X bullet weight = Y/1000  so for a 124 grain bullet to meet USPSA power factor it would need to go at least 1330fps
IPSC powerfactor for open division is 160 so it would need to go 1290FPS

« Last Edit: May 05, 2012, 09:38:40 AM by GM4469 »
question? need to order something?
stuart@czcustom.com
480-969-1311

Offline Canuckhab

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2012, 03:30:27 PM »
Thank You for the advice. You are correct. Fired the gun this morning using 9 lb recoil spring and 124 grain FMJ. Worked beautifully. And, to my surprise I was also relatively accurate. Now for the aha moment. Shot approximately 30 rounds of 115 grain after the 124s and no glitch. Obviously not a long break-in period but it appears that one is certainly needed.

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2012, 11:29:04 AM »
        BTW I would like to Welcome you to our Forum. Not sure if anyone else has yet, I sort of catch up as I go through my mail then check the other boards after that. Allways liked the CZechmate just can't afford one, but now that I know about this if I ever do I will have at least 2 answers to things I may need to know. Which is more or less the point of this forum, Helping, teaching, learning, having fun and making new friends.
 
      Best wishes on your competition shooting.
If at first you don't succeed, then Skydiving is not your sport.

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Offline kneelingatlas

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 02:55:05 PM »
What are these "competition loads" and where can one purchase them? (I do not want to load myself.)


Do you plan to shoot your Czechmate in USPSA competition?  If so, the minor loads you're most likely shooting now will be scored differently than Major loads.

Like the Grand Master said, the "competition loads" the Czechmate was designed for are 9mm Major (aka .355 Super), the only factory ammo available I know about which can make Major power factor is Buffalo Bore 9mm +P+ (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/80753), but at over a buck a round, it's not exactly plinking ammo.  DC ammo will load custom 9mm Major ammo, but they don't offer anything with an overall length short enough to work reliably in a CZ.

All the research I have done leads me to the conclusion that hand loading ammo is essential to getting the full benefit of a compensated center fire pistol.

Offline muaz

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2014, 07:07:28 AM »
Hello everyone,

Iíve received my czechmate last week. 1st snag appeared that the user manual which comes with it doesnít illustrate the disassembly of it nor on the website. (CZ USA) I sent an email to them they sent me PDF file illustrating the disassembly.
I was told that using a recoil spring less than 14lb to utilize the compensator with 124grain will put a pressure on the slide of the gun. Can anyone here confirm this?
Thanks
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 07:09:47 AM by muaz »

Offline kneelingatlas

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 12:06:46 PM »
First off, you said you're shooting 124gr bullets, are you reloading?  Which powder are you using?  Are you using a chrono?

I use a 10# recoil spring in my TS Open gun, but it's not the only part of the equation.

Offline muaz

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 12:56:30 PM »
Thank you for your concern. I use factory bullets 9mm Luger Para 9 ◊19 Sellier & Bellot, FMJ 8.0G 124grs. are you sure that 10lb doesnít effect the frame on the long run. Do you know where I can find spare parts for it?



Offline kneelingatlas

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2014, 01:14:36 PM »
Are you in the US?  If so, CZ USA and CZ Custom are the two places to find parts.

Here's the problem with shooting factory ammunition in the Czechmate:  the pistol is designed for IPSC/USPSA Major power factor ammunition.  The way power factor is calculated is the velocity in feet per second time the weight of the bullet in grains divided by 1,000.  In USPSA the minimum power factor for Major scoring is 165 so most competitors are loading to 170+ (many to ~178); by comparison the ammo you're shooting there has a power factor of 146 by the advertised velocity.

Just like if you wanted to drive a Formula One race car using pump gas 87 octane, you would need to do some tuning, you may also need to make some adjustments to your pistol to suit your intended purposes.

Are you shooting the pistol with the comp installed or the barrel nut?  The comp keeps the barrel/slide locked up longer and as a result there is less residual energy to cycle the slide.  What you've got there is a top of the line race pistol, so just like a race car, there is going to be a learning curve.

Offline muaz

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2014, 02:35:13 PM »
Thank you for the rich information you are furnishing, without the compensator (using the nut) I use 115 grain and it works perfect, the problem appeared when I installed the compensator in, all bullets were not been ejected using 115, 124 and even 147 grain. No p+ bullets around. So I was informed to change the recoil spring I ordered some light springs but again gunsmiths are warning me that such alteration might affect the gun slide on the long run and that may break it down! So I got confused.


Offline kneelingatlas

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2014, 03:49:10 PM »
I never say never, because with enough rounds downrange you'll see everything, but I would suspect it would take hundreds of thousands of rounds of factory loaded 9mm to damage the slide/frame of the CM with any recoil spring.  The only issue going too light is that the slide may not have enough energy to strip the next round out of the mag.

It makes perfect sense to me that your ammo works without the comp, but won't cycle with it.  The baffles in the comp serve to 'pull' the barrel forward when expanding gasses hit them, using that energy to reduce muzzle flip, but once the slide unlocks there is less energy left to send the slide to it's rearward position.

Because such a small percentage of pistols have compensators most gunsmiths don't know much about them, there is no ammo commercially available which is tailored to them and so you'll do best to do lots of research and figure things out on your own (I bet you though you were just buying a cool gun, not enrolling in an engineering program  :grin: ).

When it comes to ammo, the conventional wisdom says the softest shooting loads use heavy bullets and fast powder, but for a compensator just the opposite yields the best effects:  a light bullet with a slow burning powder will create more gas volume which the comp will direct upward, forcing the muzzle downward.

Where are you located?  If you can't find a local gunsmith who knows all about USPSA/IPSC and Open pistols, you may want to buy some tools and start learning.

Offline muaz

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2014, 03:24:14 AM »
I live in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, Amman. I have not bought the Czechmate for IPSC nor USPSA, I need it for target shooting. I am a 9mm Luger man and fan, I tried, one day in our local range, the CZ 75 9mm Tactical Sport and found out the accuracy of it. I also own the CZ P- 07 Duty 9mm, and I am very happy with the trigger pull of it, as a regular 9mm pistol its amazing in shooting. I love CZ it was my first handgun to own that was in 1989. Since that date and I dream to own a customized CZ pistol.
 
When I searched the website of CZ I saw the Czechmate so I was under the impression that getting such pistol with a compensator will improve my shooting scores.  Because it has been already improved with the Tactical Sport, but this gun -Tac. Sport- is for the shooting club not owned by me, so I wanted to own a piece of gun which enables me to beat all the competitors around me, I obtained an import license from the local authorities, even it is not an easy procedure here to get such a permit, I was thinking of buying the Czechmate since 2011, it cost me a lot since custom duties here are rather high plus the shipping and as you are aware it is the most expensive pistol in CZ. All of that means nothing comparing to get an accurate handgun. I am happy with it so far but canít utilize the composter yet.

The C-More red dot sight also was helpful but the screws of it keeps loosens, so I need to use lock-tight which Iím hesitated to put until I get some spare screws, I need also a spare rare sight cause using the C-more sight requires to keep taking the said sight on and off, thatís why I asked for spare parts. 

BTY the gunsmith I deal with here lived in USA for a while and he knows a lot of US shooting championships and he loads his bullets by himself, but he is a 45ACP man so I canít rely on him for loading
 
Thank you very much for your time


« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 04:08:30 AM by muaz »

Offline kneelingatlas

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2014, 09:01:04 AM »
If you can find a resource for reloading, I can help with load data to get that comp working well.  I also live in an area where its nearly impossible to get a CM, but I have procured the comp and will be fitting it to a Shadow Target soon.

Offline muaz

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Re: New Gun Jams
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2014, 10:18:26 AM »
Thank you. will check and get back to you