Author Topic: +P+ Bad for CZ's?  (Read 3813 times)

Offline Terry G

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+P+ Bad for CZ's?
« on: November 28, 2017, 10:41:53 PM »
Please offer your opinion on this.  A recent sale on Federal 9MM 115 Grain +P+ has started a "Yes, that's good stuff" to "That will wreck your gun." Type argument.  My stance is that CZ's can certainly handle the pressure, I don't think the cheaper  makes  will stand up to a whole lot of +P+, but I don't think it will turn anything into a hand grenade.  I would appreciate your thought's.

Offline Rodolfo Fierro

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Re: +P+ Bad for CZ's?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 10:16:21 AM »
It is probably not going to turn your gun into a hand grenade.  It is going to cause wear on your gun at an accelerated rate.  +P+ is NOT a SAAMI rating for ammunition, that is to say that there is no established level of pressure not to be exceeded !  So, do you want to shoot extra power ammo that does not have an established ceiling for pressure in your gun ?

Offline frgood

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Re: +P+ Bad for CZ's?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 02:07:50 PM »
I agree with Rodolfo. I only wish to add that while 75s are designed and built to handle NATO pressures, which are higher than the typical ammo specs manufactured for the US. the plus (+) designator has not standard and should be considered 'higher then Off-the-Shelf' but unknown.

As Rodolfo stated, you have a high probability that it will not explode in your face. But the gun will have more wear and at an unknowable rate. So saying the gun has 2000 rounds, using +P+ ammo might be more like 3000-4000 rounds of actual wear (or some factor like that).

Offline PappaWheelie

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Re: +P+ Bad for CZ's?
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2017, 09:07:58 PM »
Hi Terry G; good question!

If you observe your disassembled gun carefully you can see the slight derangements of frame metal due to barrel and slide impacts (with frame) at the (horizontal) barrel flats and the (vertical) slide travel stop face around the recoil spring: using a good HP lube such as Weapon Shield will minimize wear, but some of the derangement is so-called "plastic deformation" (i.e. Brinelling) that only worsens with impact intensity.

Use of +P+ ammo should be accompanied by the installation of (a) heavier recoil spring(s) to absorb as much of the increased energy as possible before impact (the big event affecting muzzle flip if you study YouTubes at reduced speed), but heavier recoil springs mean more risk of FTF cycle failure when weak ammo is used.

Bottom line, if you want to use +P+ ammo without adverse effects, no problem if you also install an appropriately stiffer recoil spring, but don't then expect to run failure-free with cheap "practice ammo" without also changing out your recoil spring for said practice.  CZ pistols are, in general, very "forgiving" of pressure and bullet mass (grain) variations but "physics is physics,"* to coin a phrase; no free lunches in terms of impact damage. DPM Systems Technologies provide recoil-reducing stiffer springs if you find yourself out of options (such as the current unavailability of RAMI recoil springs from the factory).

With the possible exception of the new plastic-framed (and external railed) P10C, no CZ will "grenade," even if the cartridge fails.

Here's useful guidance: https://cajungunworks.com/how-to-select-the-proper-recoil-spring/

* Ref. Jeremiah 33.25, also Dr. Jason Lisle's "The Ultimate Proof of Creation"
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 03:46:08 PM by PappaWheelie »
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Offline old tanker

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Re: +P+ Bad for CZ's?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 08:35:32 AM »
I am of the opinion that there is little to be gained by shooting +P+ or any ammunition beyonds SAAMI or CIP standards.  If you really believe that the ammunition you are presently using is inadequate, perhaps it is time to consider a bigger gun and/or a bigger caliber. Consider that 9mm and .35 Remington both run around the same pressure level, but only one of them will propel a 200 grain .358 bullet at 2200 fps.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 08:44:38 AM by old tanker »

Offline Dvrdwn72

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Re: +P+ Bad for CZ's?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 11:35:57 AM »
Although cz is built around the 9mm NATO round, I would not use it for reasons stated above, and there is really no need. As far as +p+ I would not use it unless I absolutely had to.

Offline R.A.N.G.E.R

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Re: +P+ Bad for CZ's?
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2017, 10:44:45 AM »
Although cz is built around the 9mm NATO round, I would not use it for reasons stated above, and there is really no need. As far as +p+ I would not use it unless I absolutely had to.


I canít disagree with what youíve said, but it leads me to wonder if any semi-auto pistol in particular can be recommended for +P or even +P+ loads? Are any more stout than most others? I guess a good answer would be based on practical knowledge and experience, and familiarity with the design standards.

Offline Rodolfo Fierro

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Re: +P+ Bad for CZ's?
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2018, 08:37:03 AM »
Since there is no standard for +P+ ammunition you need to specify, for example Federal +P+.  Federal +P+ has been used in the Beretta M92 pistol.  There probably is a NATO standard for withstanding a certain number of rounds to be certified.  At any rate your gun and hands will last longer with target ammo. 

Offline Steve

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Re: +P+ Bad for CZ's?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2018, 11:34:44 AM »
The short answer is "no".  It is not bad for, nor will it hurt your CZ 75.  Of course you don't need that power for punching paper but if it's a god deal, don't hesitate.