Author Topic: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS  (Read 6275 times)

Steve H.

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CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« on: August 03, 2013, 10:17:13 AM »
Guns & Ammo - By: James Tar
    Lite Trigger Concealed Carry Gun have a Light Trigger


http://www.handgunsmag.com/2013/06/06/light-trigger-concealed-carry-gun/
« Last Edit: August 03, 2013, 10:23:09 AM by Steve H. »

Offline CZJoe

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 06:55:09 PM »
Good read!

Offline jertex

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 12:06:22 PM »
Even though it's an old post, I'm glad you brought it back to the top of the list. It is an interesting read, the comments were interesting as well. The solution to the lawyer's argument of modifying your glock trigger is don't rely on a sorry glock trigger.


Get a nice CZ or a Walther PPQ or even a Canik TP9, any version, for that matter and you'll have a much better trigger, straight from the factory with no modifications. Even better, get a CZ Custom shop and it's an amazing trigger, still technically from CZ, designated as a "carry" package designed for self defense. Then you're golden against any such silly claims. I'm for any edge I can get over an assailant. I'm 54 with bad knees and bad back from tearing up my body over the years. I need every advantage I can get over a 28 year old determined to cause fatal bodily harm to me or my loved ones.


« Last Edit: March 01, 2016, 12:07:56 PM by jertex »

Offline frgood

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 10:53:02 AM »
In keeping with keeping this topic rolling, I am not inclined not to follow the authors conclusion. Albeit, I am hard pressed to find a solid take away.

The initial premise is that the 'light trigger carry gun' debate is confused with idiom and little facts. He then proceeds to present a series of questions and scenarios and hints at a conclusion he would like you (the reader) to draw.

Here is a fact for research How many Prosecutors used the 'custom trigger job' to impeach a self defense defendant?

I can only attest to personal experience but working with a 1 3/4# trigger, I have fired prematurely under pressure.
I can only attest to personal experience that the heavier 12+# DA trigger of my CZ 85 causes me to slow my initial shot by about .5 - 1 second to load up the trigger while getting better accuracy (due to the fact I may pull or push).
I can only attest to personal experience that my EDC SIG P250SC DAO got significantly easier to operate during it initialization where I fired 2000 rounds over three months. My finger strength became stronger and more controlled with practice.

Given these personal facts, I have made the following life conclusions;
I see no need to give the prosecution any additional ammunition in court. Particularly when considering the risk reward of a light trigger bears no significant benefit.
even a 12# trigger can be usable with practice and practice we should!

To extrapolate to a larger audience, Why change? What solid reason does a person need to do a custom trigger job when the machine functions as designed and the skill of the person is at question.  If a 5, 7, 8, 10 lbs. trigger is too difficult to manipulate under stress, then this might not be the safest choice of a self defense tool.

What say y'all? - Here is some fodder.

Offline jertex

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2016, 03:45:07 PM »
I can only attest to personal experience but working with a 1 3/4# trigger, I have fired prematurely under pressure.

...I can only attest to personal experience that my EDC SIG P250SC DAO got significantly easier to operate during it initialization where I fired 2000 rounds over three months. My finger strength became stronger and more controlled with practice.

Given these personal facts, I have made the following life conclusions;
I see no need to give the prosecution any additional ammunition in court. Particularly when considering the risk reward of a light trigger bears no significant benefit. even a 12# trigger can be usable with practice and practice we should!

To extrapolate to a larger audience, Why change? What solid reason does a person need to do a custom trigger job when the machine functions as designed and the skill of the person is at question.  If a 5, 7, 8, 10 lbs. trigger is too difficult to manipulate under stress, then this might not be the safest choice of a self defense tool.

What say y'all? - Here is some fodder.


Given your argument, if practice makes you safe & proficient with a 12# trigger, then by the same token, practice will make you safe & proficient with the 1&3/4# trigger and I would suggest that if you have prematurely fired the lighter trigger under pressure then you weren't using safe and proper trigger technique and, with more practice/training, that problem would be solved.


Of course, the reality is that I would never suggest someone use a 1&3/4# trigger because you can practice till the cows come home and it will not give you the same experience as being under duress during an actual self defense/live shooter scenario. I would also suggest, as already stated in my previous post that under actual duress, you won't shoot that 12# trigger as proficiently as a lighter trigger, so I would suggest that there should be a balance like what I suggested above, a gun with a very good, factory trigger.


While everyone should practice/train with the gun that they carry on a regular basis, access to training varies by job/family requirements, financial limitations, etc. etc. Given your premise, if they aren't able to train enough where they are confident with a 12# trigger then it seems that you you're saying they shouldn't exercise their 2nd amendment right to bear arms. If that is indeed your conclusion, I would heartily disagree and say that this sounds very much like something that would come from the anti-2nd amendment crowd.

Offline frgood

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2016, 08:05:43 PM »
I can only attest to personal experience but working with a 1 3/4# trigger, I have fired prematurely under pressure.

...I can only attest to personal experience that my EDC SIG P250SC DAO got significantly easier to operate during it initialization where I fired 2000 rounds over three months. My finger strength became stronger and more controlled with practice.

Given these personal facts, I have made the following life conclusions;
I see no need to give the prosecution any additional ammunition in court. Particularly when considering the risk reward of a light trigger bears no significant benefit. even a 12# trigger can be usable with practice and practice we should!

To extrapolate to a larger audience, Why change? What solid reason does a person need to do a custom trigger job when the machine functions as designed and the skill of the person is at question.  If a 5, 7, 8, 10 lbs. trigger is too difficult to manipulate under stress, then this might not be the safest choice of a self defense tool.

What say y'all? - Here is some fodder.


Given your argument, if practice makes you safe & proficient with a 12# trigger, then by the same token, practice will make you safe & proficient with the 1&3/4# trigger and I would suggest that if you have prematurely fired the lighter trigger under pressure then you weren't using safe and proper trigger technique and, with more practice/training, that problem would be solved.


Of course, the reality is that I would never suggest someone use a 1&3/4# trigger because you can practice till the cows come home and it will not give you the same experience as being under duress during an actual self defense/live shooter scenario. I would also suggest, as already stated in my previous post that under actual duress, you won't shoot that 12# trigger as proficiently as a lighter trigger, so I would suggest that there should be a balance like what I suggested above, a gun with a very good, factory trigger.


While everyone should practice/train with the gun that they carry on a regular basis, access to training varies by job/family requirements, financial limitations, etc. etc. Given your premise, if they aren't able to train enough where they are confident with a 12# trigger then it seems that you you're saying they shouldn't exercise their 2nd amendment right to bear arms. If that is indeed your conclusion, I would heartily disagree and say that this sounds very much like something that would come from the anti-2nd amendment crowd.

I am suggesting that there is a inordinate desire to get 'trigger jobs'. The article was questioning the common belief of not getting a trigger on an EDC gun. I am disagreeing with the author in both their reasoning and the conclusion they would have one draw. I see no need to have a trigger job, particularly to lighten, and on a carry gun. At least not until one has some significant experience.

You see on these forums a quite common scenario where someone has purchased their first gun, has just gotten their CC and immediately want to ship it out for 'upgrades'. I think it might be wise for the general response is to get the newbies to hold off on changes to their gun until they have the proficiency to notice and take advantage of any difference.

On a side note, In every self defense book and every class I have taken, it has brrn pointed out the during the heavy adrenaline dump of a 'situation' gross motor skills are the 'order of the day'. The finesse required to accurately operate a 1 3/4# trigger is not there and the consequences of such an action would range from counter productive to dangerous. My Light trigger is fine for competition where the stress is well rehearsed. When hunting, my rifles have a 5# or plus trigger because the adrenaline rush overcomes the pull quite readily.

Lastly, when it comes to self defense. we do not discuss abrogating anyone rights. That is an over-excitement. However, if you are going to fight for your life, be sure you are know what you are doing. Just carrying a gun is not enough. It is imperative to know how to use it. just like a car, a chainsaw, or hammer.

Offline CZ Taiji

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2016, 04:10:34 AM »
my 1.2 cents. the point you make in your last post frgood as to newbies has it's merits no question about it.most brand nubian will benefit from that way of looking at things so far as getting more experience with their gun before modding it. 
I brought 2 new cz's . one a P07 2nd. gen., and the other a cz 75 sdp compact -custom job.
my po7 had a trigger job done before it was sent along with new sights too. obviously the sdp is custom out the box. both triggers are close to each other so far as feel. the edge goes to the PO7 right now, that of course could easily change after they both are broken in .
My first CZ was an early  97B, even though i went to the gun shop aiming to buy a new cz 75 9mm . the trigger on the 45 felt much better, i figured i'd like it on the range better, and on the street even if they were hyped on drugs the 45 would likely neutralize that type of threat much better . 
i always do my homework before buying anything 100 or more, i didn't care what it is lol . i have been following CZ for years before i got my 1st. then after many moons the 97 b they now can mod up is just an awesome 45 to say the least.


back to triggers, it's a subjective thing based on proficiency , and personal taste combined . some guys will have the same skills, but prefer a different set up based on the same exact gun so as how they like the trigger to feel to make them comfy. i have arthritis, and do not the same muscle strength i once had . 
mainly because i do taijiquan , and i subscribed to the give up all regular strength camp . thus normal muscle power is decreased because we use our muscles in a very different way now.


so it's all about who the shooter is, and what are there goals, aspirations, and intentions when it comes to how they will use that pistol. 
hands on experience will as you know alter one's reality/perception .  I DON'T GO ABOUT MAKING UP MY MIND THE WAY MANY OTHERS OFTEN DO .
i knew what i wanted, and why. stayed in the same caliber,, and size range on purpose . also if someone comes need to be shown the error of their ways do you think i'm going to grab the sdp custom to do the work. I certainly am not, i will use the PO7 , and not fret while it is in the evidence room of the police. i don't want to use the sdp unless forced to do so because those cops might go oops... smh

[/size][size=78%] [/size][/size]my decisions thus far have always been spot on, and i have not regretted the decisions i made to purchase my toys . i have a decent little knife collection too. if i had that many guns i would consider it over the top though lol.  i have always favored blades over guns to be honest :) i do have a feeling a couple of blades might get sold to buy another gun of some type, they are easier to sell than guns imho. not in any hurry though. [size=78%]


please note: a caps ninja follows me because i can't type worth a crap nothing more than that.
didn't teach us this in school!

"A free people ought to be armed."
- George Washington

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
- Benjamin Franklin

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."
- Thomas Jefferson

Offline Chino Hills

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2016, 11:27:32 AM »
If you are involved in a "shoot," everything you do will be micro and macro scrutinized.  Was it legal?  Was it reasonable?  Every choice and action will be studied.

Was the "modification" appropriate?  For an older/weaker person?  A trained and practiced competition shooter who uses that firearm all the time?  Or a newbie acting with bad advice who smooths it up "too" much, has poor finer/trigger placement and discipline, jumps at a sudden voice or distraction and fires a shot (or two)?  Perhaps under conditions that weren't appropriate under local laws?

I'd suggest that with an almost complete absence of actual case discussions being out there to find, that a lot of these discussions, like gear choices and ammo choices, are getting worked up over side issues and the primary problems, accuracy, training, legal compliance, etc., are going to be much more important.

Offline frgood

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2016, 12:56:45 PM »
If you are involved in a "shoot," everything you do will be micro and macro scrutinized.  Was it legal?  Was it reasonable?  Every choice and action will be studied.

Was the "modification" appropriate?  For an older/weaker person?  A trained and practiced competition shooter who uses that firearm all the time?  Or a newbie acting with bad advice who smooths it up "too" much, has poor finer/trigger placement and discipline, jumps at a sudden voice or distraction and fires a shot (or two)?  Perhaps under conditions that weren't appropriate under local laws?

I'd suggest that with an almost complete absence of actual case discussions being out there to find, that a lot of these discussions, like gear choices and ammo choices, are getting worked up over side issues and the primary problems, accuracy, training, legal compliance, etc., are going to be much more important.

Hear! Hear!

Offline ulmapache

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2018, 10:24:38 AM »
My 2 cents worth... My EDC is a VZ 70..when I first acquired the pistol, the DA trigger was worse than the cap guns we had as kids, and the SA was not much better.  Installed a Harrington firing pin, and that smoothed it out to an acceptable level. Still a heavy DA, but not gritty like the original, and the SA is comparable to my '83. If the Harrington pin had not brought the trigger to an acceptable level, the next step was a "trigger job"..not necessarily to lighten the pull, but at least to rid the pistol of that grittiness... And as always..Practice, practice practice....

Offline Luger Fan

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Re: CONCEALED CARRY & LITE TRIGGERS
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2018, 03:42:52 PM »
I think it was Jeff Cooper that advised to get TWO of your carry guns. If one breaks it will be down 3-6 weeks, if used in a defensive situation it could be YEARS.


Cover your a**.