Author Topic: My favorite 2 52's  (Read 12546 times)

Offline GhostWarrior

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My favorite 2 52's
« on: February 07, 2011, 09:33:37 AM »
The one with the wood grips was completely refinished and all the easily broken original parts swapped out for the stronger modern version, all the original parts have been saved just in case. The only thing that has been changed on the other one was/are the grips. The man that made them and 3 sets of wood grips I have mounted on my other 52’s is really great at his craft. And the Rampant Lion is the Royal Czech Lion and I think I have the only other pair in existence other than the ones he had made for himself and I begged a copy of   his. If I could find a set like those to fit my 82 I would be in hog heaven.
 

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 09:15:33 AM »
These look like cool pistols. I like the Tokarevs and would be interested in adding a 52 to my collection. I haven't seen any of these around. Are they still ou there on the market? or are they sitting in peoples collections?

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2011, 10:49:05 AM »
     Just to make sure we are understanding each other, and please do not be offended, both of those pistols are CZ 52's that use 7.62 x 25mm rounds, which are generically referred to as “Tokarev”

     The Russian Tokarev TT 33 or also referred to as the Tula Russian TT 33 is a Russian semi-automatic pistol. It was developed in the early 1930s by Fedor Tokarev as the replacement for the TT30. These are 2 entirely different pistols that use to same ammunition designation. As is the term Makarov is the generic term for 9 x 18 MM which is used for both the Makarov Pistol and the CZ 82 again 2 different mfg but using the same caliber.

     You probably know this already but for everyone that isn’t familiar with the name Tokarev or Makarov I thought I would mention this. When someone says that they want to possibly add a Tokarev or a Makarov to their collection, I personally presume they mean the actual weapon made by that name and not the Ammunition.
But to answer your question presuming you meant the CZ 52 then yes they are out there but starting to get a bit hard to find, unlike the huge influx or CZ 82’s that have suddenly poured into the US market and driving the price down. Try GunBroker.com or AuctionArms.com that’s where I have found mine.
 
   The grips of course are after market, information which is also meant for those that have never seen either pistol before and don’t know they have Black plastic or Bakelite grips.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 10:57:11 AM by GhostWarrior »
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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2011, 07:29:09 PM »
Oh, I knew that, I guess i wasn't very clear. I probably should have said I like the 7.62x25 round. There are plenty of Tokarev pistols out there right now, mostly Yugo and Romanian.
One of the things I like about the CZ's are they are different. That's why I'm interested.
 Now some claim that the CZ is built stronger, others point out that the bottom of the chamber is much thinner then the Tokarevs and you need to be careful with your ammo selection. are the CZ's OK with shooting the surplus ammo out there?

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 08:17:54 AM »
Yep I figured you knew the differece and I certainly sometimes don't get out what I really ment to say, But I want this Forum to be a Learning place for everyone, so taking a little bit of time to explain so that others would lern something they may not have know was worth the time.
 
As for finding a 52 for sal here is one that poped up from one of my site search requests. It's on the GunsAmerica EmailWeb site:
 
     Click to view
1 image(s)      CZ-52 7.62x25  Listing ID: 987801684   CZ-52 semi-automatic pistol for sale. Comes with 2 magazines (in picture, 1 is shown and the other is in the gun), cleaning rod and holster. Note that the color in the picture is a bit off and appears to be due to either the camera or sunshine refle...   Seller: Bill Gibson  Price: $250.00
 
As for the shooting I have shot mind more than a bit and I only have Surplus Russian 7.62 x 25 rounds for them, and it works fine for the most part. (as stated they are surplus rounds which means old and not overly stored for long term. So you get a few no fires. But man are they fun to shoot!. If I had fresh Ammo I could count on to fire every time I would carry my 52's as my CCW's. well ok 1 as a back up because the round may well go through and through a person at close enough range.
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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 07:27:52 PM »
Nice, I'll check that one out.
Do you know much about the 7.62x25? I've read in a couple places around the internet that some of the bullets from the communist block are plated steel bullets and it is illegal to import them into the US because they are armor piercing. I've put a magnet to some bullets and was surprised to see how many are actually steel.
Do you know if it is in fact illegal to import the steel bullets? I'm kinda hopeing they go away
since they must be putting more wear and tear on the guns. If I plan to buy these bullets at a gun shop I'll bring a magnet with me to see what they are before I buy them.
 

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 08:40:34 AM »
     Truthfully I can only say that you really need to check with local, state and fed laws. There are so diverse that I don't know what laws are where. As for the FMJ Rounds, I have heard it two ways myself; one is that it is a "Soft” metal jacket that will before so therefore NOT and AP round. The other is that yes they can be full on heavy steel jackets that may or may not deform. THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION! YOU NEED TO DO WHAT YOU THINK IS BEST.  As far as I am concerned, if I can buy the ammunition over the counter from a Brick and Mortar Building and not just off the internet, then I have every reason to presume that the BATF has done its job and approved the ammunition for sale in the US and the US Customs has followed suit. Those 2 agencies are the end all be all of the regulatory bodies and we as citizens have every right to expect them to have done their jobs and not hold any Citizen at fault for their failure to follow their own rules.
 
         As for the ammo and the guns, well the way I see it is that it's the chicken or the egg question, was the ammo made first and then the pistols to shot it? or were the Pistols made first and the Ammo designed to be used with the pistol? Either way I suspect that thousands and thousands of these/those rounds have gone down the barrels of these weapons and they still are working just fine. ALWAYS ALLWAYS get your pistol checked by a professional to make sure it's not damaged in any way that can't be fixed or will not impact the integrity of the weapon. Before you take that new “at least to you new” weapon to the range and shoot it for the first time.
 
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Berserker

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 02:38:25 AM »
Hi Everyone! I'm from Czech Republic and new here, so please, be patient with my poor English. I found this interesting forum quite accidentally while searching with Google and because I have some knowledge about our guns, I would like to answer some of your questions.

...Now some claim that the CZ is built stronger, others point out that the bottom of the chamber is much thinner then the Tokarevs and you need to be careful with your ammo selection. are the CZ's OK with shooting the surplus ammo out there?


AFAIK the bottom of the chamber is not the problem, but the slide is. Pistol was originally constructed for 9mm Parabellum cartridge (9x19; 9mm Luger), but later was rebuild to stronger 7,62x25 for compatibility with russian weapons. See the picture.
 


Slide has a weak spot under the ejection port. One of the locking rollers is pushed here and material is bent. You can see little rounded peak, if you look along the slide. Mostly is it only bent, but I have seen cracked too. But the gun was still working.
I can see it very often (peaks) because ammo originally produced in Czechoslovakia is very powerful and it is only used here because of low price of the army surplus. Good cleaning is necessary, because surplus ammo primers are corrosive. I had three of these pistols. They were cheap here, so expendable too. I sold them all, but I love to shoot this cartridge, so now I have chinese TT-33 from Norinco. It is very well built copy of the russian TT-33, which was originally constructed for 7,62x25. Nice strong weapon.
I like to shoot this ammo through the old vehicles and old military helmets. It penetrates better than 9x19 or .357 Magnum, but it depend on material of the bullet. Some of them have hardened steel core. They was intended also for submachine guns Sa. 24 and Sa. 26.

If you shoot russian surplus, it could be OK, because it's not such strong as Czechoslovakia surplus. New Czech ammo from S&B is less powerful too and non-corrosive.

Viking, some of the bullets have tombak-plated steel jacket but not steel core.

GhostWarrior, these white grips with Czech lion are amazing! I like them a lot. It's nice to see somebody who is taking such a good care for these guns. They can be very precise. Even at 50 yards I was hitting 8" diameter steel plates. Some of my friends couldn't shoot well with them, but I had no problem. It takes a bit of trigger mechanism adjustment to get a smoother trigger.

Oh, I wrote a lot! I hope some of it might be useful for somebody.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 03:02:07 AM by Berserker »

Offline Angryvikingman

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 09:52:13 AM »
Actually, your english is very good. Thanks for joining the forum! Hopefully your insight into the weapons from your homeland will help us all out in some way or another. I had also been thinking about getting a handgun like this. A friend of mine who's into russian weapons told me about the Tokarev and the round it uses. He get his gun and 1200 surplus rounds for $600. Yes, you have to clean a gun constantly when you use surplus ammo, but its worth it for the price. You just have to check the ammo for cracked necks.

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 03:22:37 PM »
     Berserker:  Thank you for posting this information. It's great to have you on board with us and your English is extremly good. I'm pleased you liked the white grips and Thank you for the compliment. The gentlman that sold them to me along with the wood grips told me he had only made about 3 sets of the Royal Lion and between us we had the only ones in the world. No idea if thats true but I like the story and the quality of his craftmansship.
 
     Again welcome to the Forum and I hope you have as much fun here as we have. Learnig something new is what we are here for and to have a Czech Native here to help talk about the CZ is totally great! BTW I have a Russian TT 33 Tokarev that I also love to shoot.
 
     AV:  Thanks for mentioning to look for cracked hecks on the ammo, I have only been checking it for corrosion and sealing the primers.
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Viking

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2011, 09:16:24 PM »
Welcome to the forum Berserker. Thanks for the useful information. I'm here because I know there is always something new to learn. You seem pretty knowledgable, so I'm looking forward to hearing  what you have to say.
 
Angryvikingman;
 The Tokarevs are great pistols and the 7.62 x 25 a great round. Right now there is a flood of Romanian and Yugoslavian pistols out there.
About a year ago there were plenty of spare barrels out there for sale. Now they are scarce. Seems some of these surplus pistols are very accurate, others aren't. The surplus ammo with the steel in it wears the rifling down over time. So if you buy one, I wouldn't have them order it. Find a store that has them in stock, break it down and look down the barrel.
You can find a video on breaking them down on youtube.
Interestingly, it's real easy to convert a Yugo Tokarev to 9mm. You just need a 9mm barrel and barrel bushing. You can use the same magazine, just push the bullets to the front when loading it. ( this doesn't work in most other Toks ).
What's with the Viking name? I'm a big Minnesota Viking fan.

Offline Angryvikingman

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 03:00:28 AM »
@ Viking
 
I took a class in german longsword fighting, and the instructor made comments on my aggressive style, and someone else said I was "like some big angry viking man" and the nickname just stuck.
 
My friend who has a Tokarev said that the 7.62x25 is really accurate at ranges past 50 yards too. He compared it to the 5.7 FNH round shot from the P90 and FN fiveseven pistol.

Viking

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2011, 05:19:25 PM »
The 7.62 x 25 is really accurate at longer distances. The Russians also made a neet little sub machine gun that shoots this round. I think it's called the PP SH or something like that.
 I've always wondered if the .357 sig was really developed to match this round and not the .357 mag and it just made more sense to market it as a semi .357 mag like round.
 There are also chamber inserts that you can use with a Mosin Nagant rifle. The 7.62 x 25 round fits inside the insert so you can shoot it through the rifle. Of course it becomes a single shot rifle at that point. The insert is sold by the Sportsmans Guide.

Berserker

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 11:04:30 PM »
The 7.62 x 25 is really accurate at longer distances. The Russians also made a neet little sub machine gun that shoots this round. I think it's called the PP SH or something like that.


Nice article about 7.62x25mm Tokarev:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62x25mm_Tokarev


Some submachine guns using the 7.62 Tokarev cartridge:
http://world.guns.ru/smg/rus/ppd-40-e.html



http://world.guns.ru/smg/rus/pca-41-e.html



http://world.guns.ru/smg/rus/ppp-43-e.html




And of course Czech submachine gun:
http://world.guns.ru/smg/chex/sa-23-e.html




« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 11:14:15 PM by Berserker »

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: My favorite 2 52's
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2011, 08:00:49 AM »
      I wonder what it was like to shoot those using 7.62 x 25 on full auto? Must have been painfull to some extent. And man are those things ugly. Except for the third one down, that one likes like WWII meets Star Wars. I actually like that one. Fire selection switch inside the trigger guard strikes me as having some pluses and minuses but it is indeed an intresting idea, In the Summer when they weren't wearing gloves it most likely wasn't an an issue and actually possibly a good idea. But in the Winter when they had to wear gloves I wonder how much it got in the way?
 
     Either way thanks for posting the pics. Those are great.
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