Author Topic: RELOADING 9mm / Bullet Mfg's / Where to START  (Read 7202 times)

Steve H.

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RELOADING 9mm / Bullet Mfg's / Where to START
« on: January 02, 2013, 02:40:00 PM »
As a Newbie member to CZF and now a Newbie starting to reload. I've been searching the web for as much info as possible. I came across this web site:
http://www.oocities.org/hayes1966/reloading9mm.htm
       RELOADING 9MM

Written by a member of CZF with info from other members. All information is written mainly for CZ 75.
:smiley: :smiley:
There might be some info to be up dated. But, THIS IS THE STARTING POINT FOR ALL NEWBIE'S

Bullet Mfg's.   http://www.reloadammo.com/relbul3.htm

Addemdum: It was pointed out that I managed to leave off an important part of this and they sent me the rest of it, (actually I still can't find the entire artical, since the only part I can find so far is what I have and dosen't carry over to another page apparently, so Thank Geobob for finding it and sending it to me to be added here.) but I can't add it to what I have now so it's getting added here. It's long but it takes up where I left off the copy, I apologize for the inconvenience. And with any luck I'll try to find the entire thing on one URL and copy that here and lose this, but for now here is the missing part, with a special thanks to Geobob for finding it and sending it to me to post. Also I would like to thank the original author?(s?) or at least the person that compiled and posted this in the first place (Hayes1966):

Carried over from the first part of the original article:[/font]
"You may have noticed that dirty cases that sit for a while get dirtier; this is the styphnate breaking down and getting all over the cases.

E. Summary

1. Although there are many different brands and types of primers, the handgun reloader only needs to be concerned with large and small pistol primers (standard or magnum).

2. Consistent primer seating is much more important than brand name. Consistent primer seating is absolutely necessary for safety and accuracy.

3. Usually, you will select a primer brand based on the requirements of your priming equipment or the brand of case being loaded.

4. Primers, whether new or spent, are the most dangerous component for the handloader and his/her family.
VI. Tips and TechniquesIn the previous sections, we have focused on the components themselves. This section addresses specific loading techniques and equipment recommendations.
A. Powder Selection and SafetyAlthough it may seem like we have beaten this horse to death already, a few topics were alluded to that would benefit from clarification. For the volume handgun loader, metering may be the most important powder characteristic. Some powders, which may be less than ideal for many handgun applications on paper, have a reputation for accuracy. Winchester 231 comes to mind, and I think it is no coincidence that this powder meters exceptionally well in all equipment.
Consistent powder charges become even more critical in small capacity handgun cases like 9mm or .40 S&W. A variation of one tenth (0.1) of a grain may represent as much as three percent (3%) of the charge weight.
Alliant and Winchester powders are generally cheaper by the pound than the offerings of Accurate Arms, Hodgdon, and others. When you are first starting out, avoid buying powders in large quantity. Although volume purchases are definitely the best way to save money on components, you don’t want to get stuck with a powder that doesn’t work out in your pistol. Powder is also the one component that has not gone up significantly in price in the last three years.
Beginners should also avoid military surplus or pull-down powders; these are not cannisterized grade. “Cannisterized” powders are manufactured in such a way that each new production lot is theoretically identical to the last.
Wear safety glasses if you do not wear eyeglasses. Make a special place for the current powder you are using, and remove all others far away. You can't grab the wrong powder if you only have the right one nearby.
Weigh your charges early and often. When getting the hang of your powder throw from a measure, fill 10 cases (no bullet), then go back and weigh each one and look for consistency. This costs nothing, and it reveals potential problems with your powder selection or equipment setup.
For new reloaders, I recommend IMR SR 4756 when it is appropriate for the working pressure of the cartridge, because most handgun cases will overflow with a double charge of SR 4756. In particular, 9mm cases cannot hold enough of this powder to create a dangerous pressure situation. SR 4756 is also extremely accurate in 9mm.
B. Die SelectionFirst of all, always buy carbide dies for handgun cartridges when they are available. Steel die sets are a false economy in handgun cartridges. You will spend much more money on case lubricant in short run, much less the long run.
Virtually every die manufacturer offers at least one specialty die that does the job better than the other manufacturers’ offerings. Obviously, die sets from the same manufacturer are more economical. For this reason, I would recommend either the Lee tungsten carbide four die set or the Redding titanium carbide three die set.
The vast majority of reloaders use Lee carbide die sets for handgun cartridges. They are less expensive than other manufacturers’ steel sets, and they work. I can also recommend the Redding titanium carbide die sets, despite the hefty price tag. The RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, and Dillon dies cost much more than the Lee and are more comparable to the Redding in price. However, they are not comparable in overall quality to Redding.
Only the Redding uses an entire titanium carbide insert, rather than a titanium carbide coating or tungsten carbide insert, for their sizing dies. Redding sizing dies have a lifetime guarantee and do not gall brass like tungsten carbide.
Only the Lee sets are available in a four die set, which includes the Lee factory crimp die (FCD) and a shellholder. I will be discussing the Lee FCD below, but it is worth mentioning that only Lee gives you a shellholder with every set. Otherwise, this is another $5-$7 to add to your bottom line.
Regardless of the brand of dies, the expanding die is what determines how straight the bullets seat. The Lee expanding die works the brass harder when used with their disc powder measures, but works alright alone. Lyman makes an “M” expanding die that is highly regarded for easing bullet seating. In my honest opinion, most RCBS expander and seating dies do a poor job. The Hornady and “normal” Lyman expanders are very similar. The Redding expander works better than anything except the Lyman “M” in my experience.
Semi-auto cartridges absolutely require a moderate taper crimp, due to headspace considerations. You don't want to get carried away, but you shouldn't skip this step either. Many older reloaders do not crimp at all with lead bullets in semi-autos. You can get away with this in some instances, but it seems to limit accuracy, if nothing else. The separate Lee factory crimp die is not absolutely necessary, but it has the welcome side effect of post-sizing your cartridge. This fourth die has both a crimper and a small carbide insert; the cartridges are virtually guaranteed to feed. The Lee FCD will also remove the curious “Coke bottle” effect often seen in reloaded 9mm cartridges. If set correctly, all manufacturers’ 3 die sets for semi-auto cartridges taper crimp in the seating die.
There has been a tendency in recent years to taper crimp revolver cartridges. This is usually the best practice for lighter lead loads. A heavier roll crimp should be used for jacketed bullets than have a crimping cannelure. This is especially true with magnum revolver cartridges. Otherwise, the bullets tend to “creep” out of the case under heavy recoil. Since revolver cases will headspace on the rim (some models are intended to headspace in the chamber, but they will still headspace on the rim), you have a lot more freedom when deciding how to crimp.
The Lee four die deluxe carbide sets are probably the best buy. If you are experiencing problems with seating a particular make/model bullet or something similar, trying another brand’s specialty die may help. I learned that switching to a massive single-stage press (like Redding or Pacific) may prevent the use of Lee dies, since the Lee die body is slightly shorter than other brands. I have sets of Redding dies for this reason, but I still prefer the Lee sets for volume reloading. C. Press SelectionThis topic is somewhat beyond the scope of this article, but I feel that a few comments may be desirable.
Any press or tool on the market is more than adequate for loading handgun cartridges from a mechanical standpoint. Sizing handgun cases does not require much force.
Obviously, the Lee and Lyman hand tools are too slow to even consider for most handgun shooters. (I am referring to the classic Lee Loader, not their hand press.) The Lee hand press may have some use for loading at the range and the like, but it is also too slow for handgun quantities. From this perspective, all single stage presses are more or less equal. They are much faster than hand tools and hand presses, but they are still relatively slow.
With the exception of several Lee models, turret presses are not truly semi-progressive. They are basically single stage presses with movable die storage. This is still faster than a single stage when the turret is set up properly. The Lee turret presses with auto index actually have a rotating turret that indexes to the next die station with each lever stroke. While not as fast as a true progressive, this arrangement is much faster than any other turret press.
The majority of volume handgun shooters eventually end up with a progressive press of some type. The general consensus is that the Dillon models are superior in virtually every respect. These are not cheap, so I do recommend starting out with a single stage press. Some tasks will always be easier on a small single stage, and most people are interested in a relatively small initial investment.
My honest recommendation for a first press would be one of the Lee single stage or turret press kits. When loading handgun cartridges, almost all single stage presses are identical from a practical standpoint. Their relative strength is a non-issue. You really don’t need a massive single stage press. If you are financially committed to reloading, there is no reason why a beginner couldn’t start on a progressive. Admittedly, it is easier to learn on a single stage, and you will always have a use for a single stage (such as loading a handful of check loads). Your priorities may be slightly different if you know you will also load high-powered rifle cartridges at some point.

D. Bullet Selection and Seating
In addition to their ballistic and performance characteristics, which we have covered above, some bullets are much easier to seat than others.
Seating 9mm bullets is fairly challenging. (It is usually the most difficult step with any cartridge.) The sizing die tapers the entire case length, which makes the case mouth somewhat undersized. Consistent and concentric expansion is necessary, which can require case trimming for uniformity. The bullets are relatively long and narrow, which does not help matters, either.
Full metal jacket bullets with a rounded nose and ogive have a reputation for accuracy in most semi-auto chamberings. This is not due to their ballistic or aerodynamic characteristics, but because FMJ-RN are relatively easy to seat. However, FMJ-RN do vary considerably by brand, and heavier bullet weights tend to have straighter ogives. .
Some hollow point designs have round ogives, and they seat fairly easily. Conversely, hollow point bullets with straight ogives are incredibly difficult to seat. Hornady XTPs can give you fits, while the Speer Gold Dots do well. Remington Golden Sabers have a driving band that seems to aid in seating. (You cannot use the Lee FCD with the GS driving band, however.) The generic bulk JHPs from Remington, Winchester, et al. vary considerably, but they generally have rounded ogives.
Due to the long bearing surface and ease of seating, LSWCs have a reputation for accuracy in most revolver chamberings. In my honest opinion, the FWCs reputation for accuracy has more to do with the powder-puff charges used and the reduction of extra airspace, not the bullet design itself."
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 02:25:27 PM by GhostWarrior »

Offline chfields

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Re: RELOADING 9mm
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 03:27:19 PM »
Welcome to our forum!! That is a great link, has lots of good info!! Look forward to hearing more form you.....
 
Again, welcome to our forum!!
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CZ Rami BD 9MM
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Offline jonnie

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Re: RELOADING 9mm
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 10:11:16 PM »
Welcome to the world of CZForum.com! and thanks for reposting that link. I had forgotten about it but I suspect it will be very helpful to me in the not too distant future :smiley: .
If you ain't havin' fun, you ain't doin' it right!

Then or now, Welcome Home Brother!

NRA Instructor, Red Cross Instructor -  CPR/AED/Wilderness/First Aid, WA Hunter Education Instructor, Washington Trails Assoc., Int'l Hunters Education Assoc.,

bimmerland

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Re: RELOADING 9mm
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 10:46:16 PM »
Welcome to our forum!! That is a great link, has lots of good info!! Look forward to hearing more form you.....
 
Again, welcome to our forum!!
I've been reloading for a year now and my Lee Pro 1000 is set up for 9's for my 75SA. I can crank out 200 rounds per hour. It took me about 3500 rounds to break even. Now I load for a little over $5 a box.  If you want to get into reloading hot and heavy (20K/year) I suggest a dillon 650. They carry a lifetime warranty.  YMMV
 

Offline chfields

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Re: RELOADING 9mm
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 12:31:26 AM »
Ghostwarrior and I have finally got his Hornady press set up and putting out consistent rounds. Now we just need to load up on supplies and start cranking them out. Since we plan on testing and reviewing all the different guns and loads, we need a ton of ammo. Reloading will be the only way we can afford to do this. I'm looking forward to it.....
CZ 75B SA
Hogue Wraparound Rubber Grips with Finger Grooves
CZ Compact (Steel, No Rail)
CZ Rami BD 9MM
CZ 712 G3 W/extended mag tube
Member USPSA
Member IDPA
Life Member NRA
Captain of the CZForum.com shooting team
Proud Army Dad

Michael

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Re: RELOADING 9mm
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 12:02:49 PM »
Thanks for the info guys!  I'm saving all my brass going forward so I have the option to start this as well.  Being limited to shoot by cost is a trouble that has a cure as all of you have found! 


sheepherder

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Re: RELOADING 9mm
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2013, 01:48:34 PM »
Have been shooting since 12 am now 58.   I've never reloaded yet although reading up on process and equipment needs for new  Cz85Combat.   Shoots very nice,slick handling.   Bought 6 box for it but they don't seem to last long, so reloading is a must.   Maybe this  OLD  DOG can learn new trick.

Larry

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Re: RELOADING 9mm / Bullet Mfg's / Where to START
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 02:10:51 PM »
Really a great 9mm hand loading article,  enjoyed it. I was reading the other posts, thinking how many pistols I've owned and shot over the years using store bought ammo. Lately only went to range a couple of times a year to clear the throat of my 1911; if I can find it, .45 ammo now $1+ a round commercially. OUCH! I ran across a used CZ-75B 9mm w/.22 Kadet kit at a great price. Figured 9mm would be cheaper. Only the .22 Kadet kit ever fired and it's a 2003! 9mm ammo not much cheaper and .22LR can't be found. Like most folks here finally figured out I'd better start rollin' my own. Been working on outfitting a Lee single stage Breech Classic Cast. Will be loading 9mm, .45ACP and 25-06 rifle (came with wife 20 years ago and both excellent acquisitions...). Look forward to reading posts, learning to re-load and being active in this forum.

Larry

Offline chfields

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Re: RELOADING 9mm / Bullet Mfg's / Where to START
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 02:35:14 PM »
Welcome to our forum!! The ammo prices and availability are getting insane. Just went to the gun show here a couple weeks ago in Orlando and they were selling 500 rnd boxes of .22lr for $100, absolutley insane. 2 months earlier I purchased 500 rds for $26 at that same show. We are still working on getting our mixture right on the reloading, hopefully we can clear that hurdle and start pumping out the rounds. Let us know how its goes...
 
Again, welcome to our forum!!
CZ 75B SA
Hogue Wraparound Rubber Grips with Finger Grooves
CZ Compact (Steel, No Rail)
CZ Rami BD 9MM
CZ 712 G3 W/extended mag tube
Member USPSA
Member IDPA
Life Member NRA
Captain of the CZForum.com shooting team
Proud Army Dad