Author Topic: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition  (Read 16556 times)

Offline GhostWarrior

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Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« on: April 04, 2011, 10:16:30 AM »
I took all my gear out to the range this Saturday and set everything up, the Target, the Oehler Chronograph, my field desk hooded everything up and with the help of a friend put 5 rounds only through my Competition from 8 Different Ammunition Companies. This is in the order I shot them and you will notice one of the results only has 4 results. Well that was from a freak flier and not my aiming ability. And yes I wounded the Chronograph, I am happy to say that even though gravely injured the third Senor gamely carried on for the rest of the day, but I am saddened to say it succumbed to it's injury and will be replaced by another victim, mmmm I mean sensor shortly.
Ballistics Range report for Saturday 26 March 2011
Ammunition MFGDescriptionVelocities' Average Difference in fpsAveraged Speed
BlazerLuger 147 Gr. TmJ15121071463
1411
1405
1494
1496
1479
MagtechLuger 124 Gr.FMJ (9B)1059121222
1056
1048
1460
1050
American EagleLuger 124 Gr.FMJ 1195211201
1193
1203
1204
1214
Winchester RangerNATO 124 Gr. FMJ1325231337
1348
1333
1335
1343
(Speer) LawmanLuger 124 GR TMJ1254381255
1236
1274
1250
1260
FiocchiLuger 124 Gr. JHP1202121204
1198
1210
1204
Cor Bon    (only 20 rounds per box)Luger  P 90 gr. JHPThis is going to have to be retested, I got one reading out of 5 No idea what happened. Product says on the box that it has 1500fps energy of 450ft Lbs
Speer        Gold Dot   (only 20 rends per box)Luger 124 Gr. GDHP1236161246
1252
1247
1252
Please keep in mind that this is the first time in years I have even tried to keep records like this let allow share the results. I freely admit I am rusty but I will continue to try to put out as much information as I can concerning CZ's.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2011, 02:50:44 PM by GhostWarrior »
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Offline Angryvikingman

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2011, 01:08:31 PM »
WHAT?!? NO WWB?!? LOL! Thanks for that. Seems like Blazer and Win Rangers are better ballistically.

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2011, 05:40:51 PM »
      This is going to be an ongoing project, and not only am I going to try the same ammo in all my pistols and post the information, but as I get different ammo I will do the same tests one each weapon. That was originally done on an excel spreadsheet so I could share it and let others add to it if they have the equipment and want to add to the base. But I don't know why it came out the way it, I wanted to use Excel so I could share it, and because it was easy to alphabetize so there won't be any duplicates, I could really use someone that had a clue how to make my idea work.
     I really had no idea how much time and money it was going to take to make this a world class Forum. But I sure am going to try. BTW for the Record everything I have done so far has been with my own money at retail, No ones given me anything to use for any part of this forum with the exception of the vender's filling out the Excel spread sheet. Well the only one so far.     
      I don't know of a chart that lists guns to holsters which is going up slowly but it is going up, The same sort of list of grips makers to pistols, Nor do I know of any forum that uses calendars and events for All (or at least as many as I could find or know about) Shooting Organizations, and National and International Competition.      
     As for the pictures well I forgot the camera at home, seriously I forgot the damn thing. However truth be told the testing was done freehand and not bench rested so the target was at 25 yards and basically just an aiming point I could barely see. Trust me even if I had the cam there is no way I would print them here. ROFL.
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Offline DeeDubya

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2011, 09:47:56 AM »
GW,
 
I guess you know that the Oehler 35P had been discontinued and then a "special run" was supposed to be available last summer? Anyway, if you shot one of the vanes you might want to get a replacement or two before they're no longer available. I've enjoyed my Oehler for about 15 years now and chronograph just about everything, even pellet guns. Have you had the inherent problem of muzzle blast velocity? If your SD "Standard Deviation" is too wide then your first skyscreen might be picking up the velocity of the muzzle blast, not the bullet. A simple way to make sure it doesn't happen is to cut a sheet of plywood (wafer wood is cheaper) lengthwise, support the two pieces vertically and leave a 10" crack between them. Shoot through the crack and the muzzle blast will be attenuated by the plywood.
 
I've always wanted a Ransom Deluxe Series Rest. I'm sure that I'm not up to the accuracy potential of any of my handguns. Grip inserts are a little pricey though. Like the the CZ75 runs about $55. I think it would be awesome to parallel the accuracy with the ballistics. Some interesting data should result.
 

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Offline DeeDubya

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2011, 10:46:08 AM »
Chronographing can burn up a lot of time as well as ammo. I found a number of ways to help shorten set-up time and logging data. First my sky screens (3 with Oehler 35P) are locked down on a conduit (1/2" EMT) so that I don't have to put them on each time. I have the cables tie wrapped to the conduit and the leads are bundled and tie wrapped to make set-up quick and easy.
 
I use 8.5"x11" targets that have a place to write all the load details. When I finish a shot string (group) I will place the target and the 35P printer tape on a copier so that the tape is in a corner of the target, holepunch th copy and place it in a binder. This way I have the target (group), load details and the chronograph printout together.
 
The only small problem is that when you copy a target, the edges of the bullet holes are hard to see, so take group measurements before you copy and write them on the target too. On some I will punch the original target too and put it behind the copy.

For those who aren't familiar with the Oehler 35P, the pdf below shows typical printer tapes from a session. Notice that each shot has 2 velocities. The 35P actually takes 2 readings, (hence 3 screens instead of just 2) to compensate for any discrepancies and then shows (+ the highest velocity), (- the lowest velocity), (E extreme spread), (M mean and S standard deviation). It is important that you are precise in attaching the sky screens and avoiding muzzle blast which can create a false velocity.

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« Last Edit: April 28, 2011, 09:36:15 AM by DeeDubya »
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Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2011, 05:23:23 PM »
      All really good ideas. I'll give any and all of them a try. Question(s) How far Way do you set your sky screens from the muzzle of what ever you are shooting, and how far away are the targets?
       I know this is going to be expensive and a pain in the touks to do, but I really think it may help some of the members out by posting everything I try. I know some rounds just shoot better and more accurately out of different barrels/pistols. However I wouldn't object to anyone telling me this is a great idea but it's an answer to a question never asked.
Anyway back to the range this week end.........................
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Offline DeeDubya

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2011, 08:22:43 AM »
I set the sky screens as far away as the cables allow. Too close to the muzzle will guarantee false readings because of muzzle blast. I generally shoot rifles at 50yds and pistols at 25yds for chronographing and initial accuracy evaluation.
 
I think your ballistics tests will be a huge help to those who don't have the time or a chronograph to do their own tests. When evaluating a new gun or handloads I search out everything I can find. No need to make the same mistake or take a bad direction if someone else has already tried it and failed.
 
 

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Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2011, 09:33:24 AM »
      OK I keep forgetting to call Oehler and order a replacement. I just wrote a post it and stuck it on a monitor so I will remember. And I will try everything you suggested and the only thing is the Ransom Deluxe Series Rest, I need to get one of those alsom and the pads. I'll let you know how that works out.
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Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2011, 02:50:08 PM »
         Well two things. I did order the replacement sensor along with 2 extras, and the sides and tops also. So that's taken care of. Here's the thing. I decided instead of getting a couple boxes of different Mfg and trying all of them through a single weapon like I did the first time, I want to get the same mfg ammunition in all the different calibers I now have, 9mm, .40, .380, .45 and so on. And I figured I would start with Remington's UMC since more than one member has indicated that they rather like that brand. The problem is that I can't find one place that has then all let, alone all of then in bulk of 500 rnds per box/case? I have even tried calling Remington for help but had to leave messages, but they haven't responded yet. I even told them I didn't want anything for free just one place I could buy everything at one time. SO that leaves me with looking for another ammunition mfg to test. Any one have any suggestions? But, as I said I would rather buy all the same brand in each caliber form one place and in lots of 500 at least for the 9mm if nothing else. I tried cheaper than dirt and a few others but non of them have all the calibers.

         BTW I now have a second question, the first round of testing will be with FMJ rounds. I was wondering if it would be worth the time and expense to test Flat nosed or Jacketed/semi-jacketed hollow points also? I know I have had real problems with hollow points and wad cutters and I think some truncated rounds but I am not sure if anyone else has. And to be totally honest I have only ever tried using those sort of rounds in my 75 pre-B, I have not tried them in any B model CZ at all.

         So I'm open to suggestions/ on where if possible to buy the ammo in one place in each caliber I need, and if Remington and Winchester aren't intrested in giving me any suggestions on where to buy want I want the way I want, I need some idea from you folks. I have got to find somewhere really cheap because buying ammo locally is way to damn expensive, especially when you have pretty much no money. So the more I can save the more tests I can run so our members can have something to help them decide on what may be best for them.

     Oh and I know someone is going to point out that reloading is as cheap as it gets. but the problem with that is that I'm guessing here. not very many members reload. So I need to keep things as close to real world as I can afford, Since most folks buy ready made ammo.
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Offline DeeDubya

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2011, 04:05:06 PM »
I get some good deals from Midway now and then and they do have a good selection.
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Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Ballastics test on the CZ Shadow Custom Compentition
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 06:29:27 PM »
         OK I'll see what I can do with them. I think I'll check out the folks at Double Tap, And anyone else I can think of or someone recommends for accuracy. As long as I can afford them.

         In case anyone has missed one of my whatever I do not take anything for free, unless it's advertising stuff that is given to everyone without expectation of any return. When it come to, pistols, ammunition, holsters, whatever, I pay for them out of my own pocket. I am way to old school about not being beholding to anyone to change now. And if I took something for free I would be beholding to whomever it was that gave me whatever it was/is to say something nice. I will not do that to my members. or to anyone else for that matter. Especially when folks that are new to shooting are more than likely betting their health and safety on what we here have to say about anything. good or bad. There is no amount of money that will justify risking anyones health and safety.
 
         This entire forum is out of my own pocket and it will stay that way. With no ads, banners or pimped reviews just to keep it running. I'll let the forum die before I accept anything that compromises my members. Now if I can ever figure out a way to get the www.CZForum.com web site working, then I'll see about ads and banners, but reviews will still come out of my pocket.
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