CZ 75BD +P+

[Tom in Tennessee]

Hello to all here.  This is my first post / question here on the forum.  I just recently acquired my third CZ.  I have a 452, and a 82 in 9X18.  My new CZ is a 75BD; it even has the word POLICE on the slide.  As I said it is brand spank'en new; haven't even had a chance to fire it yet.  It's a right sharp looking pistol.  I am considering using it as a carry weapon.  I normally employee a .357 or a .45 ACP.  My question here is, do any of you folks have any experience with firing +P+ munitions in your CZ's.  To me the 75 appears to be quite robust and able or capable of handle the higher pressure round.  Certianly a constant diet of such a round will somewhat shorten the life of any firearm.  I would practice with standard velocity and carry the higher pressure load for defence.  The specific load that I am considering is the Federal 9BPLE which is a 115gr JHP +P+.  What is the consencious of opinion here.  Your thoughts and experience is muchly appreciated.  In the shadow of House Mountain, Tom in Tennessee.

[chfields]

Welcome to our forum from Fl!! We look forward to having you here. The CZ pistols are made to handle NATO rounds which are much hotter than ours. Bottom line is, it will handle +p+ just fine!
Feel free to ask and or answer any other questions you may have.
 
Again, welcome to our forum!

[Tom in Tennessee]

Yeah, I felt sure that the action and frame would take the round especially in the 115 gr projectile.  While I had it down for cleaning and lub I noticed that it reminded me of my Ruger SP101.  The 75 is a TANK!!  The recoil spring cpuild be used under my rear truck axle.  It looks to be one stout pistol.  Thanks for the comments.  I'm waiting on some good weather to get out with it.  Again thanks
Tom

[Michael]

It's funny you posted this I just read an article by Steve per this post: http://www.czforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=3394.msg14783#msg14783


I'm currently using +P loads for self defense in my cz sp-01 and I find it to be a good match.  Keep us posted once you shoot i'm curious to see how it feels to you.  I try to buy the same rounds for multiple guns so I've never tried +p+.

[Tom in Tennessee]

Hey Fellows,
I just talked with Federal Customer Service.  Actually, I called them last week and they just called me back.  The individual advised that the pressures of the 9BPLE 115gr. +P+ developed 40,000 psi amd produced 1300 fps!!!  WOW that stuff is hot.  I'm not sure that I want to fire that in this gun or not.  I'd hate to ruin a brand new gun.  Mr. chfields. do you still feel that is OK to use?  It's an a steel gun for sure but man that stuff seems to be high pressure.  I have read that the Illinois State POlice use that stuff but wonder what they shooting it in. 
Thanks
Tom

[chfields]

WOW that is pretty high. While I do believe your gun could handle it, I would suggest calling CZ-USA and confirming with them. I wouldn't want to say yes and then it hurts your gun. I don't want that kind of responsibility.....

[Tom in Tennessee]

Yeah, I talk to CZ last week; the answer was to use NO +P much less +P+.  That really surprised me since CZ's are supossed to be a better than average gun.  That conversation is what prompted me to pose the question on this board.  My confidence in this 75BD is beginning to wane and I hate that. I'm certainly not being rude or unkind about the gun but if that is the case; it is little better than an expensive, glorifed coke can popper.  Dang that aggravating.  I knew I should have held up until I could have found a Sig P226 in .357.  Thanks guys.
Tom

[chfields]

I don't know who you spoke to at CZ USA but I know for a fact our guns can run +P. NATO ammo would be considered +P by American standards as their ammo is a lot hotter than ours. Maybe GhostWarrior or someone else can jump in and confirm this for us.....
 
They may be saying that to cover themselves...Kind of like When Intel says you shouldn't overclock the processor yet sell unlocked processors so you can overclock. They just won't warranty your processor if you cook it....

[Tom in Tennessee]

I just sent CZ-USA an e-mail:
 
To Whom it may concern:

I very recently procured a new CZ 75 BD POLICE.  It is a very fine looking pistol.  I purchased it specifically for the purpose
of conceal carry / defense.  With that purpose in mind, I would like to use the Federal Premium #9BPLE 115 gr. JHP +P+.  I believe that this round is being used by a number of agencies including the Illinois State Police.  I do not know what pistol they are using.   My question is, will the CZ 75 BD POLICE safely and reliably fire the above ammunition.  My intent is to fire a standard pressure / velocity round for range use and load the higher pressure round for defensive purposes.  Please advise as to the capabilities and design parameters or characteristics of the CZ 75 BD POLICE. 
Thank You,
 
We'll see how they answer and I'll post that.
 
I wondered if is was a lawyer answer.  But it's a simple answer.  Will or won't the gun with stand the limited use of +P+ munitions if not, what is the weapon capable of?  I know that I have fired some pretty hot Cor Bon stuff that has made me ring my hand, seen the barrels of Rugers get kinda warm with no immeadiate recognizeable harm.  I certainly would not do that on a consistent basis.  How don't know haw fast my NIssan Titan will run because it will run faster that I need to go.  I have, one time seen 100 mph and I seriously doubt that I'll ever do that again.  However, if I need it to, I'm sure that it will do well over that speed.  I may never fire more than a magizine or two of that +P+ but if I do; I need to know if it will go.  God forbid I ever need it to because I'll be in a bad situation.
Thanks Tom

[chfields]

I look forward to hearing their response. I agree with you, you need to know. We'll see what they say and take it from there....

[Tom in Tennessee]

Gentlemen,
 
Here is the reply from CZ:
 
Thomas,
 
Just like in any pistol, +P ammunition will accelerate wear on moving parts. It’s ok to use, we just recommend using it sparingly.
 
The only ammos we don’t warranty are +P+ (since they have no spec to be held to) and handloads (since human error can be a factor), so you can use the +P+, just know that it will be at your own risk.
 
Thanks!
 
  Zach Hein
800 955 4486
fax: 913 321 2251

 
So they changed their tune from, NO +P, to +P is OK, but no +P+.   Well, I've got 250 rounds of the +P+ that I'll have to eat and try to find some sort of round to replace it or do away with the whole kitten-kabootle!!!!!  Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill ,but,  I am not pleased with CZ at this point.  I'm just as well off with a 5 shot .357.  Grumble Grumble Grumble 

[chfields]

I think that is a legitimate response, you would get a similiar response from any gun manufacturer. None will say its ok to use overpowered rounds due to the liability. I would be more likely to try rounds like that in a CZ than most American guns, but thats just me....

[Michael]

I realize why you want to use +p+ and this stinks about you having so many rounds.  If you decide to pick up some +P rounds, I'm currently using the speer gold dot 124 GR +p JHP rounds and they shoot great and are very accurate.  I really like the balance of power and accuracy for the bullet weight. 


Many thanks for doing this research.  I'm not a huge fan of high pressure except for self defense and I try to only shoot enough to ensure the gun will cycle.  So far, the results have been great for me.


Thanks again! 

[Rodolfo Fierro]

The specs for cartridges are listed at SAAMI.
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf
The 9mm is on page 23.  They show 35,000psi as the limit for 9mm Luger and 38,500psi for  P.  The everyday stuff is loaded to around 33,000psi.   There is no listing for  P  cartridges.  You are on your own to find out if your gun can handle them.  I am sure that they will have a negative effect on my arthritis.
 

[Tom in Tennessee]

Yeah, I've decided NOT to fire the +P+ munitions.  I tried to goodle up what gun the Illinois State PoPo's were or are using but never could find it.  Supposed they and a few other agencys were using that load. Oh well...  Maybe some day I'll find some fellow with a 9mm subgun and make him a good deal.  Last week I purchased some Remington Golden Sabre 124gr. +P.  (Can't find any defense munitions in K-town that's not +P. I won't fire much of that!!) Surely this 75BD will handle that; if it won't it's nothing more than a saturday night special.  I don't think that. But it will be of NO use to me.  NOt to start any sort of disagreement; I never considered a 9mm to be much.  I prefer the .357 or the .45ACP.  After seeing sunch good things about the 75, I thought I'd give it a try.  The little 82 looks to be good gun even though it is just a currio and the 452 is a good looking .22.  The 75 unless it changes my mind and really impresses me will get religated to paper weight duty.  It will make a good one of those.  Mr. Fierro, I loked at that Saami spec late last week.  Which is really what finally change my mind.  I know what you mean about the arthur.  All in my hands elbows, shoulders and hips.  It's my heart that worries me.  Thanks fellows for all the help.  When I finally get out with this thing, I'll let you know.
Tom