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Firearms and Gear => CZ Handguns => Topic started by: undrlord on February 13, 2011, 09:01:28 PM
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Hello everyone. I am new to the forum and to the CZ. I don't actually own one yet but it is one of the two finalists on my now short list.
I have been shooting around 4 years now and can tell I am getting better at knowing what I like, but this is only range shooting....no IDPA stuff. I currently own 2 Sig's (P229 and Mosquito) and a Kahr CW9 for my daily carry. This summer My dad and I will be attending a 4 day handgun school in Nevada called FrontSight. I am really excited about this because not only will I learn to be more confident in my weapon and skills but it gives me an excuse to buy a new gun :D I don't have 2 of the same caliber and when you go to this school you nave to bring two guns, a main one and a backup. I also have to bring around 800 rounds of ammo so I don't want to buy 800 rounds of 9mm and 800 rounds of .40. My pockets are not that deep.
This background brings me to this point in time. My short list was the Sig P226, Beretta 92FS, Beretta PX4 and a CZ. I have access to some version of all of these guns except the CZ. I couldn't get a 226 so I shot a 229 9mm instead. I am super accurate with the Sig ( at about 20-25 feet can do around a 2" group....I know others can do better but that was all I can do with 100 rounds and a gun that wasn't mine). The PX4 got a little wider of a group and the 92 was a little better than the PX4, but not as good as the Sig.
The gun store here had 2 CZ's, a 75 B and a P-01. Since they were new I couldn't shoot one all I could do was dry fire. The P-01 was like butter in my hand, I mean that thing feels freaking awesome. I would come close to venture saying it feels better than my dad's HK P30. They have a really good price as well.
After all of my reading over the last few weeks is one thing for sure that these guns need: a trigger job. I have gone onto CZ Custom and see that it is about $160 for this to be done. My question here is....has anyone had this done and if so how much of a difference did it make? In this regard would it just be easier to buy a pistol from the custom shop in the first place with some of these mods done to it already?
After the trigger job is done what does it do for accuracy? I read this post http://www.czforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=132.0 (http://www.czforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=132.0) for a little insite on this as well. I would love to do something with IDPA because it just sounds fun and you can get better with your skills.
If I would be considering keeping this gun for range use or handgun classes or IDPA would I do better considering a different model like the SP-01 since it has a longer barrel and more capacity?
Where is everyone getting a Blackhawk style Serpa holster from since they don't specifically carry one?
I am sorry for rambling but I just want to make an informed decision before I go out and drop some hard saved cash.
Thanks everyone
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Well inexpensive is good and I try never to pass on the opportunity. But as they say "You get what you pay for" yes he no doubt is more than capable of swapping out springs and parts and yes he may even compete himself. The question is how much doe he know about the CZ Pistols and in particular YOUR CZ? I have a gentleman here in Orlando that checks out every singly weapon I buy online and I trust him implicitly. But he works on a Lot of guns so when I want or need an answer to a specific question I always call either the folks at CZ-USA or CZCustom for their advice. Then depending on just what it is I need I either send one of them the weapon in question for the mods or simply buy the parts they suggest and have my guy do the work. I like to think I know my limitations and gunsmithing IS one of those limitations. This may well be the wrong attitude but I have this philosophy: to wit (or is that half wit? I never can keep those two straight) I am more than qualified to drive executive protection, but that’s where things stop. I do not and have never thought I needed to know how to build a motor or even fix it to do my job. Or even know anything else about the other mechanical parts, Otherwise what’s the point of having specialists? You can take this attitude to far but I honestly don’t think anyone can know everything about one subject no matter how old they live to be nor how much they study.
My point is this. You are apparently a shooter and either by genetics or serious input from your dad you know the what, where and how of being a shooter and you are willing to do what it takes to be a GREAT shooter. There are folks that specialize in everything there is to know about a subject and that’s fine. I think knowing something about a lot of things and in depth knowledge of something’s is better. I know that with any pistol no matter where you get it or who made it there is always a breaking in period, But I have found that over all with rare exceptions CZ’s have a much better learning curve and start off close to perfect than most any other weapons. Yes everyone one has their favorite Something, In my case it’s CZ’s I own over thirty of them in assorted sizes. Every one is a 9mm. I bought a matched set of CZ Shadow Customs directly from CZCustom and they are both nail drivers right from the gitgo. You can in fact buy the same exact weapon cheaper from another dealer, I didn’t. Your choice, I have the CZ Shadow, Compact, RAMI, CZ .308 Counter Sniper Rifle and so on. Some had a longer break in time than others. As in getting used to the trigger take up. But they all smoothed out with use. In your case since you are going to the Shooting school, I would suggest that you but a Custom Modified weapon straight from CZCustom or even CZ-USA. When I started carrying I was a Ruger fan big time, Then I discovered CZ’s and have never found any other pistol that out did or out performed a CZ off the shelf Pistol. As good as but never Better than. I am 60 now and I still to this day carry a CZ every single day, with total confidence that I will hit what I aim at and that it will function that way every time as long as I take care of it. Keep it cleaned and oiled.
I hope this helps more than confuses since it’s more than you asked for.
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OK the short version. Go with the 75. I would suggest the Shadow or the Shadow Custom but the P-01 seems to be the one that calls to you and that is in MHO what matters most. The customization that CZCustom does will smooth out the trigger, and swaps out the recoil springs gives you less creep and in general making shooting the weapon even more fun. I might suggest a set of Hogue Wrap around grips with the finger groves but that’s a different call but you may find it makes controlling your weapon just that much easier.
Keep in mind the more things your mind, body, hand has to coordinate and control the less accurately you shoot. Or rather the longer it takes you to control the weapon and make it the nail driver it is.
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Thanks for the replies Ghost. I am the same way about a ton of things. I like to call myself a Jack of all trades....master of none. I can shoot a gun just fine and clean it to the best of my ability, but if it comes down to needing some type of "deep clean" I don't feel confident enough to take it apart in fear of not being able to get it back together correctly.
The P-01 did feel better in my hand, but if I am looking more long term it might be beneficial to go with a longer barrel version for accuracy. I am a pretty indecisive person and I think I will feel that way until either I convince myself that the CZ is the one to try out or just do it and see what happens.
In your collection what is your favorite CZ pistol and why? Might be a long answer but it could be interesting :)
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I Have had both a PCR & P01 - getting the P01 on advice that the barrel flip was less than the PCR.
I found the barrel flip of the P01 to be as bad as the PCR ,Sold both
I have shot many guns in that catagory and found other Brands to be more stable for me.
That said, I am spoiled, I shoot full size 75 B both in poly coat and Stainless - these are my guns of choice I like a heavier gun - so my review is slanted away from alloy guns.
Try before you buy.
FYI
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Good question. My personal Favorite is actually the CZ 75 Pre-Ban 9 mike mike. It was the first Auto I ever fired that I instantly loved and didn't jam, or at least not like any other Auto I ever used, which is why up until that point I only ever carried Rugers. There is only about one way I know of to screw up a wheel gun and that is to use crap reloads or really cheap ammo. The reason being is that in both cases you will have primers that are not seated flush with the base of the cartridge and that will jam the cylinder almost every single time.
Anyway I have carried a CZ 75 since the very early 80's as not only my duty weapon but as my CCW also. I'm 60 now and I still own that original CZ but I have given it to my daughter. I still have other CZ 75 Pre-Bans that I am carrying now. But I also have a CZ 52 7.62 x 25 which is unbelievable! It also is a Pre-ban for a lack of other description. But it shoots like a cannon without the recoil. And I love the 82 as a back up since it’s small and easier to conceal. The only drawback I can think of is that it uses the Makarav 9 x 18 round which is somewhere between a .380 on steroids and a small 9. Then again I use Russian FMJ rounds and I tend to shoot reasonably well so I figure as a backup weapon it’s perfect. The CZ 83 is the post ban version but it shoots .380 and I have low confidence in that caliber doing the job.
Then again you have seen the Twins and those are a whole ‘nother ballgame. Not what I would call a CCW weapon at all. As I said at some point I am going to be sending all the CZ’s to Angus and his crew or magicians and have them tuned up mostly because I am 60 and then tune up’s will help keep my skills up to where I can live with them. And have faith in my ability to still nail exactly what I am aiming at.
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I Have had both a PCR & P01 - getting the P01 on advice that the barrel flip was less than the PCR.
I found the barrel flip of the P01 to be as bad as the PCR ,Sold both
I have shot many guns in that catagory and found other Brands to be more stable for me.
That said, I am spoiled, I shoot full size 75 B both in poly coat and Stainless - these are my guns of choice I like a heavier gun - so my review is slanted away from alloy guns.
Try before you buy.
FYI
I agree basically with your premise edisonman but with a caveat. I have a Stainless Limited edition but I generally tend not to carry it as a CCW because it can (even brushed like it is) reflect light and in my experience that is a low quality thing. But you are correct I like a heaver weapon myself. Which is why I was suggesting earlier that he should give a look at the Shadows. They are a rocking piece of hardware, have a light rail under the frame (which I won't use for the same reason I don't carry weapons’ that can even remotely reflect light) But some folks love. No one says the Rail Has to be used but it's there if they want to. Also keep in mind those Hogue Wrap arounds I mentioned.
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I Have had both a PCR & P01 - getting the P01 on advice that the barrel flip was less than the PCR.
I found the barrel flip of the P01 to be as bad as the PCR ,Sold both
I have shot many guns in that catagory and found other Brands to be more stable for me.
That said, I am spoiled, I shoot full size 75 B both in poly coat and Stainless - these are my guns of choice I like a heavier gun - so my review is slanted away from alloy guns.
Try before you buy.
FYI
I agree basically with your premise edisonman but with a caveat. I have a Stainless Limited edition but I generally tend not to carry it as a CCW because it can (even brushed like it is) reflect light and in my experience that is a low quality thing. But you are correct I like a heaver weapon myself. Which is why I was suggesting earlier that he should give a look at the Shadows. They are a rocking piece of hardware, have a light rail under the frame (which I won't use for the same reason I don't carry weapons’ that can even remotely reflect light) But some folks love. No one says the Rail Has to be used but it's there if they want to. Also keep in mind those Hogue Wrap arounds I mentioned.
Ok...newbie here...what is a PCR?
I just don't see how the muzzle flip could be that bad on an all alloy gun. I am thinking the P01 would be alot like a Sig 229 9mm. I find it very controllable. Am I missing something? I am always willing to learn something new here so if I am not getting it let me know.
I really like the two tone Shadow custom *drool*
I just like a gun with a rail...not sure why...just think they look better :)
I am so so on the Hogue grips. I have the set you are referring to on my P229 .40 and I am borderline taking them off because they feel to fat. Granted then are super comfortable.
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PCR = Czech national police.
As far as the muzzle flip issue, well if you have experience with it and you think it's something you can control to the point it's a non-issue then as I said before pick the weapon you like. Every single person on this forum or any other one can give you any number of plus and minus reasons for ANY weapon you decide on. I am not saying that getting advice is a bad thing or the wrong thing to do, only a complete fool doesn’t' ask for advice on something they are not familiar with and somehow you don’t strike me as a complete fool or a fool period. I might suggest you look around where you live for other gun store and or range listings and spend some time an effort (I didn’t say it wasn’t going to be either boring or possible a waste of effort) and see if anyone has a CZ in the model you want as a rental to try out. You could always possibly find a better price if not the pistol to try out.
The grips, well that again is totally personal. Maybe the grip/back strap on the CZ you want is slimmer than the pistol you have the grips on now and they would work better on the CZ? Then again maybe not, can’t know until you try.
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Ok, lets begin here.
I named the P-01 for CZUB upon their request to name the then secret gun.
Know that I was very surprised to see P-01 stamped on my gun that was one of first
into the USA.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/M3.jpg)
CZUB decided to use the 75D Compact P-01 name for the guns over there and what
would be the issue gun for the Czech Police.
The P-01 had a forged alloy frame and a accessory rail over the then standard PCR models
that had served both the Police (PCR), Czech Army (ACR) and CZUB so well.
That said.
with over 20 years of shooting CZs of all flavors.
The P-01 is the most bulletproof of all CZ pistols, save for the 75 Classics.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/P8.jpg)
We just never heard of problems with them.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/HNP2.jpg)
The same can be said about the PCR and P-06, but more people buy and embrace
the P-01 than those other models.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/P22.jpg)
Much like the Glock 19 that it is compared to by many.
A P-01 does everything right.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/camohorn3.jpg)
You might get a bit more accuracy from a 75B series, or 75SA, but or most it
won't matter.
No problems about burning hot +P ammo through them either.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/P-REAR.jpg)
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/czbest06m.jpg)
More info:
http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/hakan/czp01.html
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That P-01 with the P-01 Grips is SHINY! Really that has got to be one of the most shinest weapons I have ever seen. Matching grips. ANd you got to name it so how Shiny is that?
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I am still here :)
Thanks for that info and the link to that Angelfire site. I need to know one thing....where can I find the P-01 Duo Tone? http://www.angelfire.com/amiga/hakan/p1large.JPG
I want that one!
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What about holsters? I would need a retention holster for what I am going to be doing with my dad and I love the Blackhawk Serpa holsters but I know they don't make a specific one for the P-01. Who does?
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I've seen a satin nickel/blued dou tone locally.
No idea on retention holsters.
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See my General discussion post on the subject. No idea if or when it could or will work but maybe you and CZ-RAMI have ideas.
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Was it a factory look or aftermarket?
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CZ-RAMI or some one else will need to answer this one at least the "factory look" part. I can make a guess that the "After Market" part means Custom made and not the same style as the Orginal Factory installed grips. Actually that answer may apply to the first part of your question except in reverse. But I would still like to here CZ-RAMI's defination.
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Ghost what post are you referring to for us to look at?
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oh sorry I guess I really wasn't that clear. opps. :o
- CZForum.com »
- General Firearms Discussion »
- Molds for Custom Holsters and Grips
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I might be pulling off topic here but is the main difference between the P01 and the SP01 the physical size, barrel length, capacity and all the other things that go along. Basically is it a full size version of the P01?
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for what ever it's worth no you are not off topic. This is the P01 room and that is a question based on or around the P01.
The P-01 is a compact, alloy framed decocker model with light rail
The CZ 75 SP-01 is the first full size handgun (4.72” bbl) from CZ to feature the improved manufacturing technology and ergonomics of the NATO approved CZ 75 Compact P-01 model. So I'm going to go with the SP-01 is bigger and the P01 and I'm guessing here the SP-01 is bigger in all dimensions. Well that and the P01 won't accept the Kadet Kit
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Ok.....I have for sure decided that I want to go with the CZ. I have thought about it a lot and I have found NOTHING bad for anyone to say about it. I am still a little leery on holsters for now, but at least I have decided on the make :)
Now I am starting to confuse myself on whether or not I want to do the P01 or the SP01. I want a good gun that is very accurate and fun at the range or for taking these type of handgun schools with. I like that the SP01 has more capacity and the longer barrel but I don't know if the additional weight of it will make me fatigue quicker if shooting a lot. Also if I want to carry this weapon is the SP01 to big for it?
Such difficult questions to answer right now. I need to get my hands on the SP01 and decide from there. Then I need to decide where to try and buy it from. I am leaning to CZ Custom just because they can modify it for me right there without me having to ship there and then ship back. I am open to suggestions....LOL
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Well I will say the SP01 is a tad on the heavier than some, and I think carrying the weight would be a call on your part, But I have 4 of the Shadows and 2 of the CZCustom Shadow Competitions. I’m going to have HBE or Tauris make a set of Holsters for both types to see how they carry. I do have the CZ Ghost holster for the Shadow Customs for Competition but its Kaydex(sp?) which is fine for competing but I prefer hide for day to day carry. I’ll probably ask High Noon also to see what they have. I do have one of their holsters and I do really like it. We shall see. There are just so many Great Custom Holster Makers that I think it only fair to try to spread my purchases out.
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Undrlord:
Save yourself some money. You could send your 229 to Sig factory for service and replacement of small parts and springs. They do this for $89 and can throw in new night sites for $139. With recent service, it is unlikely that you will need a second gun and could rent one of theirs in 40SW at the school.
If you want to buy the CZ P-01, it is really cool gun that has some very interesting collector's interest and a darn good shooter to boot. The action job should bring that action up to a very good level. Note that the P-01 is 27 oz with empty mag, while the P229 weighs in at 33oz.
Really nice that you and your dad are going to have a good time together. Looking at the Front Sight web site this seems like a highly commercialized organization that pushes lifetime memberships.
There are other trainers out there that might be worth a look to compare prices and value.
http://www.thunderranchinc.com/cost.html (http://www.thunderranchinc.com/cost.html)
http://www.gunsite.com/main/ (http://www.gunsite.com/main/)
Check out Google with something like "Problems with XXX XXXXXX" as part of consumer due diligence.
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I appreciate the input but my idea of a gun collection is to have guns of different calibers and makes (if you like other makes out there). I like ALL kinds of guns so I have to be pretty picky about which one I choose to buy when I get a chance since it might be a year before I can buy another one.
I love my Sig and will never get rid of it, but it is not in need of new springs or anything like that right now. I would rather not take a .40 with me to the school due to ammo prices and since I will be doing a ton or reloading while there I might as well take advantage of the additional round capacity of a 9mm.
My dad went through Front Sight last year with my mom and they had a blast. I think that it is very cool that they are offering lifetime memberships for a super good price. They just ran a special that was a lifetime membership for $300. If I lived closer I would have probably jumped on that deal. The class we are doing only cost us $70. I know if you look on the site the prices say like $2k for the same class but if you sign up for the emailers then you will get notice of all kinds of crazy priced deals.
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That really makes a lot of sense. The CZ is a nice shooter and I think it will absolutely hold up for your course. Factory 9mm is very reasonable and seems like a cost effective solution for your class. Sounds like you are going to have a good time.
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I sure hope it is because I am really looking forward to it...haha.
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I was thinking that you have first hand knowledge from your folks that G. S. does a good job and that it will be fun. Additionally, you will be spending quality time with your Dad. I recall some great outdoor experiences with my Dad and it sounds like you will also get to share a good experience together. It's the kind of thing we can reflect on later and have very good memories and some great stories to tell that we couldn't even imagine before they happened. Life is short and these experiences are some of best things in life.
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Wow, I checked out FrontSight. You have got to be kidding about the prices for that place. Thats ludicris for the time spent there. I sincerely doubt that I could benefit enough from 2 days of instruction to make me want to pay the $1000 price tag. I can get a $20 video and practice for a week solid, shooting 500rnds a day and still get out about $200 cheaper.
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That is what I am saying also. They have all of these crazy prices listed online, but when you sign up for their email letters they will also send out "savings". For instance....when my mom and dad took the same 4 day class last year my dad ended up paying $300 and then a month later my mom paid like $100. After they attended they were given the option to purchase as many 4 day classes as they could for $70 each....so they bought 4.
They also just got finished running a special for the lifetime membership for $300 instead of the advertised $10,000 or whatever it was. I really wish they would open something like this on the east coast so I wouldn't have to travel all the way to Nevada from TN.
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Yeah, no kidding. Everything thats gun related and remotely cool is far from TN, and this is "The Patron State of Shooting Stuff". Lol! I would really like to gt a bunch of my LEO and Military buddies together and form a shooting school here in TN.
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that would be so cool. i have always wanted to open a gun store or something with a range.
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Talk to your buddies and see if we can't get some seed money. All you need is about 5 acres and some staff. Rent a backhoe and make some berms, and presto, you have a range. I think you know which buddy I mean. :)
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By buddy are you talking about me dad?
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Just keep one tiny little detail in mind when looking for Outdoor range space. Well 2 things first: A) My information is at least 20 years old, B) I do not know a thing about any part of Tn with the possible exception of Nashville (no I did not go see Graceland, Elvis was still alive then). So I do not know if this will actually effect even the idea of having an outdoor range, Especially a range capable of rifle shooting
The US Coast Guard will NOT allow any shooting range to be built within I think it was at least a MILE of any navigable water way that comes under their jurisdiction, which I take to mean Rivers, Canals, Bayous, Lakes large enough to rate a Coast Guard station however small, etc. If the water anywhere with in a mile of your range is under Coast Guard Jurisdiction, they will veto the entire thing. Double check on that/this, since as I said my information is OLD. I know this because back when I was with the Sheriff's Office back home the qualification/practice range that was not just used by my department but 3 other Departments as well was shut down by order of the Coast Guard after a Canal or Bayou got dredged or built (I forget which) that was deep enough to have crew boats, and other commercial and sport fishing vessels use it. And the Range had been there for over 25 years BEFORE the waterway was built or deepened or what ever. And the range was actually Barely short of the 1 mile limit, Didn't matter one bit, The range was closed and it was a year before a new site could be found and built up.
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Very interesting to know.
I know there are ranges around my area but most are indoor and the out door range has some like 2 year waiting list to become a member which I think sucks, but i am sure they have their reasons.
I would like to have a place that is a range for just an every day person to come out and shoot or have company events or whatever at. With the addition of instructional classes for pistol, rifle and shotgun. Maybe some specific for home protection, how to clear a room, what to do under pressure of hearing someone break in your house, etc.
There are a lot of ways you can go with it and I am sure it would be a lot of work but some how I think I would feel gratified at the end of the day. Lots of insurance I am sure :laugh:
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Na not more than a couple Million I'm sure, Hell of an idea though.
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Sign me up!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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And we have hijacked yet another topic. :cool:
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It is just to easy to do I guess
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Hey, it happens! I meant the Barrett kid you're friends with. Surely they have some land out in Christiana that they'd be willing to sell cheap to parties interested in promoting shooting sports. Especially if it gets them some positive press. I could always go see Mr. Barrett at his house. I know where he lives. Course I could end up with a gun in my face. I can always draft a proposal and present it to them, its pretty easy to draw that kind of thing up. Sorry, I keep perpetuating this thread jacking. I'll make a topic in a sec.
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My P-01 is the only pistol I trust to fire first time, every time. I never had any failure or problem of any kind. Great gun. :wink:
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The P-01 is about as Rock Solid as any pistol can be.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/c11.jpg)
A very reliable and durable multi-tasker.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/245bi9g.jpg)
One gun that I have no problem with carrying right out of the box.
(http://i54.tinypic.com/2mezdbl.jpg)
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Whats the switch on the bottom of the grips for? Laser?
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Hi, yes. to turn the laser grip on or off.
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb26/czrami/P-01/proc2.jpg)