Author Topic: Bullet Jump???  (Read 5032 times)

Offline epsanto2

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Bullet Jump???
« on: July 19, 2012, 06:13:53 AM »
I have an idea of what"JUMP" in a rifle is, the distance a bullet must travel between the bullet surface and the rifling once the trigger is pulled.  And I understand the longer the jump, the wider the groups.  My question is what causes the variations in accuracy with regard to JUMP?  Ie. the longer the jump, the more wobble before entering the rifle which can cause the bullet to be "nicked" throwing off the ballistics?  Just trying to understand. 


I've checked some Remington factory loads I had on hand and found quite a variance in overall length between rounds.


Using a Hornady overall length gage in my 6.5 Swede, I come up with 2.977 but have been loading according to the test load length in manual of 2.850.  Hornady recommended adjusting my overall length starting with 2.957 and I thought I would work up by .005 increments.


All input would be appreciated.


Thanks in advance.


       
".... keep your finger off the trigger and the pointy end down range"

Offline Rodolfo Fierro

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Re: Bullet Jump???
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 10:31:31 AM »
I have not considered the JUMP with pistol ammo.  I have always adjusted the OAL for a reliable feed.  A slight variation in pistol ammo may not be that noticeable in group size.  Some guys in Bull's Eye League shoot a 1" group @ 25yds, which is fantastic.  That level of accuracy is not that much to brag about with a rifle.

Offline DeeDubya

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Re: Bullet Jump???
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2012, 09:48:23 AM »
I think the best choice for loading for "bolt action or other single action like Ruger #1" is to make a dummy round with the bullet you intend to use. Leaving the primer out and the case empty, neck size and seat the specific bullet out past the OAL specs. Then gradually seat the bullet deeper just until it chambers. I then take a black sharpie and color the bullet ogive. Chamber the round and you should see where the lands touch the bullet. This seating depth would eliminate bullet "jump" for this particular bullet and keep the bullet from moving until the powder is igniting. You would have to do this for each different bullet because of variations in the ogive shape and angle. This method could cause a problem in a box magazine if the bullets OAL are too long to fit. And, of course this method would not work for auto-loaders and pistols. And finally, on some shorter (lighter) bullets it might not leave enough contact between the bullet and case neck.
 
Now for pistols, here is another concern with bullet jump. Even though you can't eliminate the jump you can help improve the accuracy that is affected by the jump. Good bullet seating is of #1 importance. Primer and powder choices can also make a huge difference. Here's what can (and does) happen. When the primer ignites and if a bullet is not seated firmly, the primer pressure will push it out of the case and it will stop as it hits the lands (pistol) or forcing cone (revolver) until the powder fully ignites and pushes it on down the barrel. This can cause irratic pressures which would affect velocities and in turn, accuracy. This would be similar to a "hang fire" in the old black powder guns which is basically a time delay between primer ignition and powder ignition. Again, proper powder and primer choices can elimiate or reduce this anomaly.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 12:02:19 PM by DeeDubya »
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Offline ZG47

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Re: Bullet Jump???
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2012, 06:37:39 PM »
1. Safety and accuracy are more important than following chatter. Short shanked boat-tail target bullets may require some degree of forward seating in order to go straight down the barrel but it is very easy to exceed safe working pressures if you seat a bullet significantly further forward than the average* o.a.l. specified in a bullet maker's manual. NB Strident advocates of minimum bullet jump carefully avoid telling you that electonically measured pressure can exceed 70,000 without visible primer indication or bolt-lift issues. Read a good manual like the current Speer or Sierra, which is prepared by professionals, before seating bullets forward.
 
*I say average o.a.l. because a bullet is seated in a case according to where the ogive meets the bullet seating stem/sleeve, due to manufacturing variations.
A good shot at close range beats a 'hit' at a longer range.

Offline epsanto2

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Re: Bullet Jump???
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2012, 07:16:48 PM »
Good advice, guys.  I did check with Sierra and since I am using their 100 gr Varminter HP and they said beyond 2.850 could result in questionable powder ignition.  I am currently running the 2.850.  Following Hornady's recommendation of backing off the lands .020 inch I would only eliminate .127  inch of jump verses safety.  I'm strictly a weekend paper shooter who only puts in 38.4 grains of 3031 compared to a max of 41.3, so maybe I should work the charge up in order to improve accuracy.


I am still open to input, so please bring it on.   


Thanks again guys.....
   
".... keep your finger off the trigger and the pointy end down range"

Offline DeeDubya

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Re: Bullet Jump???
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2012, 08:01:41 AM »
Here's one on how to determine seating depth: http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/2009/10/reloading-seating-depth.html
 
A Google search for "Bullet Seating Depth vs Pressure" will yield a number of discussions.
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Offline epsanto2

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Re: Bullet Jump???
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2012, 08:42:03 AM »
1. Safety and accuracy are more important than following chatter. Short shanked boat-tail target bullets may require some degree of forward seating in order to go straight down the barrel but it is very easy to exceed safe working pressures if you seat a bullet significantly further forward than the average* o.a.l. specified in a bullet maker's manual. NB Strident advocates of minimum bullet jump carefully avoid telling you that electonically measured pressure can exceed 70,000 without visible primer indication or bolt-lift issues. Read a good manual like the current Speer or Sierra, which is prepared by professionals, before seating bullets forward.
 
*I say average o.a.l. because a bullet is seated in a case according to where the ogive meets the bullet seating stem/sleeve, due to manufacturing variations.


ZG47, excuse my ignorance, but who or what is NB Strident?


Thanks,


Epsanto2
".... keep your finger off the trigger and the pointy end down range"