Second FTE in 500 rounds, getting worried

[nj22]

I just got an 85b (sorry, I know this is the 75 club, but it's not model specific) and love it for many reasons. It's a pleasure to shoot and points wonderfully for me. But after approx 500 rounds I've had my second FTE. First time was using American Eagle ammo, this time some mil surp.

Both times the spent case sat above the live round, parallel to it (that is, not a "stove pipe" fte). The first time it didn't make it all the way out of the chamber and I had to drop the mag to clear the brass. This time I could just rack the slide to free it. In either case, I was shooting two handed, and am pretty confident it wasn't limp wristing.

I was going to check with CZ first, but they're closed for the holidays. I've heard they make people ship firearms back at their cost for service even under warranty--not something I want to do if that's the case. On the other hand, I'm not sure I'm comfortable replacing the extractor spring. Would swapping out the recoil spring help?

Thanks!

[Logan]

Is this a stock magazine?

[GM4469]

check for crud under the extractor. it builds up under there and can keep the extractor from getting proper tension on the case.

[nj22]

Factory 10 rd mags.

As for checking behind the extractor, I've heard that, but is it possible to have build up after only 300 rounds (first fte?).
I haven't stripped it down that far yet. I just need a couple of steel punches, right?

[GM4469]

seems a little soon, but it is possible.

one punch, like 2mm.

[nj22]

I can't seem to find a clear photo tutorial for removing the extractor on the 75. Do you just knock out the pin from the hole on the top of the slide and slide out the extractor, or do you need to remove both pins from the slide and take out the firing pin first?
Thanks!

[Rodolfo Fierro]

You probably do not need to remove the extractor.  Just scrub behind the "claw" that holds the case.  The bronze brushes have the most scrubbing power, but the nylon ones work almost as good, and the last a lot longer.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/671244/hoppes-gun-cleaning-brush-double-ended-bronze
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/747468/otis-gun-cleaning-brush-double-ended-nylon-package-of-3
 
 
 

[nj22]

Because I like to hit things with hammers I decided to take the extractor out. There was some sludgy stuff, but it wasn't caked in anything. Cleaned it up and put it back (with no oil, correct? IE they run dry?). Hopefully that solves the problem. I'd really like to get this thing to where failures just don't happen. Even once every 300 rounds to so.

CZ custom recommends swapping the recoil spring down to 14lbs. Maybe upping the power of the extractor spring. But I'm hoping the cleaning helps.
Thanks for the tips everyone!

[GM4469]

Sounds like you got it OK..big hammers are great. :)
let us know how things progress.

[nj22]

Big hammers? I didn't get the custom trigger job if that's what you mean--I didn't want to do anything custom to it b/c I didn't want to mess with potential reliability. Got the CZ in part because I heard they run "like tops" (as they say).

[Angryvikingman]

I think he meant hitting stuff with big hammers. 2 rounds inside the chamber parallel sounds almost like a double feed to me, but if both a spent and live round are trying to go in, it is an extraction problem. Since you removed the extractor and cleaned behind it, have you fired it? Did this resolve the problem so far?
 

[nj22]

Of course--forgot the hammer reference in my last post...

As for the double feed, yes, it looked like a double feed both times, but the top round was just the case. I've actually seen a few posts about this googling variations on cz and fte.

[Angryvikingman]

Of course you're going to hear about more problems on a forum, but you have to realize that cz makes more guns per year than any two other manufacturers. They're going to have some defects, but that in itself is no excuse. That's another reason we're here. Let us know if you have any other problems. I'm thinking that a lower power recoil spring may help. It could be that your spring could be too stiff and its not going completely rearward every time, thus causing the casing to not eject properly. Could also be a bent feed lip causing the next live round to press up on the empty case and trap it in the chamber. Compare the feed lips on the mags and see if they are the same. Hope this helps.

[GhostWarrior]

nj22:
 
         if it's ok with you would you mind if this got moved to the 85 forum? Presuming we can do it at this point? The reason I ask because this is a really good post and I'd like as many folks as possible to see it. You have good questions and the folks that are trying to help have had some great idea. They may help someone else even if they don't solve your particular problem, Which knowing these guys is only a matter of time. And trying to fix an 85 in the 75B board means that folks with 85 may miss (odds are good that not may but will) this particular topic
 
            Just to be Snarky there IS a CZ 85 board this should have gone on, not here. 
 
"I just got an 85b (sorry, I know this is the 75 club, but it's not model specific" 
 
            It's just under the CZ 75 Kit Topic on the CZ 75 Board. Not actually the point I'm really trying to make and I'm not pointing it out to embarrass you. It's just that we all of us need to please do our best to get things in the correct spot as much as possible. Otherwise someone else made miss the information they really needed or wanted because it was in the wrong place. It's the Holidays so things happen, this is the only time one of us has gottent something in the wrong place, Won't be the last time either. But if we can catch them fast enough then we can move the topic to where it belongs.
 
          Anyway carry on and I hope we all can figure the problem out with your 85. And I wish you and yours and everyone a Healthy and Prosperous New Year.
 

[nj22]

Angryviking: Of course, I didn't mean to suggest that there are a lot of reports of fte's with CZ's, but that if you poke around enough you can find a few posts, and a lot of them tend to discuss this kind of fte (spent and live round parallel). Whereas if you search for glock fte's you'll find a lot of stove pipes. You're diagnosis sounds plausible--and I'm going to order some lower power springs from the custom shop to check. Also took the mag that was involved in the last fte out of rotation. So I'll shoot it today with a clean extractor and see what happens (though it took hundreds of rounds to get an fte, and I don't plan on shooting that many). Then I'll replace the spring. If no FTEs for at least 500 rounds I'll put the mag back into rotation and see if I can't figure out the main cause. Then I'll post here.

GhostWarrior: Sorry. This can be moved wherever, I suppose. But it's not an 85 specific problem (at least I don't think). Is there anywhere one can post to ask about all 75 variants (SA, BD, 85, etc)? That way questions about springs and extractors need not go to boards with low traffic.