Author Topic: Modern Pistol Technique  (Read 18117 times)

b5.5dan

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Modern Pistol Technique
« on: July 08, 2011, 07:46:17 PM »
This is useful stuff for the pistoleering novice (such as myself), and interesting for everyone. It's a Wikipedia link, but I would love to know here what people make of this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Modern_Technique_of_the_Pistol

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2011, 11:29:31 PM »
     OK this one I am going to dispute, I was taught/told that the The Mozambique Drill came from the Mossad, and that it went. Chest, testicles, then head. Chest first easiest shot gets a douple tap and if not wearing armor gives you the chance to put Tertiary and Fourth Presuming you need 4 and not 3, (2 in chest, 1 in head is how most folks learn it.) shots into the chest with one going for the head. But if the first 2 shots do nothing at all to visibly deter the assailant/enemy, then the next shot went into the groan, two purposes accomplished here. Very rarely do folks wear Groin protection so the shot has a really good chance of opening up arteries, not to mention some sever pain which will also cause the enemy to lean down to look, and or grasp himself  thereby exposing the top of his head which is where the third shot goes. Usually followed by a close up check shot to the head.

     So in short form it's a 3 shot or triple tap, 1ST 2 center mass. 3RD groin, and 4th head shot with or without a confirmation shot. This was designed to give the agent the most chances of taking down his opponent wether they were wearing body armor or not.

    Anyway that's the way I was taught and used it and practiced it till I could hold the pistol any longer, then went back the next day etc. That's not to say that I wasn't trained on the Weaver Stances and the Target Shotting stance. Primarly thestance you use mostly depends on circumstances, enviorment, and what and why you are shooting in the first place.

     If you are a LEO other than a Fed LEO the The Mozambique Drill that I just described will get you at the least a suspension, if not charged outright. If you are doing Executive Protection them you had best know more than one stance and when to use them and how. The Mossad and a couple other fun clubs go their own way and again depending on the situation and conditions they use the most effective way to neutralize their opponent, even if it means not using a firarm at all.
     So many people take Jeff Coopers name and things credited to him as gospel. Maybe in this case that story on Wikipedia is correct, but Wikipedia is not infalable and anyone can change anything written in it. I'm not calling anyone wrong here, just saying how I heard the story and why. Make up your own mind on what you choose to believe.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2011, 11:55:10 PM by GhostWarrior »
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b5.5dan

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2011, 12:10:01 AM »
I've looked around and seen a couple different "Mozambique Drills", but they all come down to 2 in the body and one in the head. But some of the criticism I have seen makes one wonder if the MD makes any sense. I know (for better or worse) that if someone comes into my house I'm going to be, I'll admit, scared, and if I have to fire, the BG will likely get a full clip. I would like to say that I could do a sweet triple-tap and it's Tango Down, but I don't think so.


I know I'm coming into the sport at a time full of "innovations" and whatnot, but I find it incredible that, or so it seems, prior to WWII there wasn't much thought given to the use of pistols or their application. Sure, people practiced, but nothing much was given over to the definition of technique in practical situations. I wonder if the best shot in the world circa 1910 could stand up to, say, Adam Tyc (if in this little hypothetical situation our crack shots could either use the same equipment or got to use whatever they were best with).

Something else that has always troubled me is, why to the hip-hop gangsters do that dumb-ass thing where they hold the Glock (and it's always a Glock) sideways. In the old movies where they seemed to flick the pistol forward, THAT made sense (flipping the pistol forward makes the bullet fly faster!  :cheesy: ). But sideways?

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2011, 09:23:16 AM »
        I presume you mean the old "Andy Devine" School of Shooting, where you use the pistol to help throw the round at the bad guy? (OLD, OLD Western actor), every time he fired his weapon went up and back and he would then throw it forward and fire, It Allways looked like he was not shooting so much as trying to help the round go faster or was simply thinking if he snapped the gun down ad forward fast enough the weapon would fire the round for him and he wouldn't have to remember the cock and fire it.
          Hey like I said everyone seems to have different ideas about what stance is the correct one, double taps, triple taps. The thing I like about what I described, is if you are doing EP or something equally as dangerous if was possible the bad guys were wearing vests and so should you. And since there really is only once place basically to put a round into the front of someone's head it makes for a very small narrow forehead to aim for, I real life unless that is literally an automatic unthinking mussel trained shot it's hard to do in a fire fight especially your first. If you shot someone in the face you might get the round all the way to his brain, but then you may not, because there is too much teeth and thick bone to get through and or deflect the shot.
          So if you learn to go 2 in the center mass you may or may not kill the opponent, so then your back up shot becomes instead of the narrow forehead, the groin area. much bigger target and easier to do damage to. Which forces the opponent to lean forward, which brings the entire top of their head into the target area. Way easier to hit than the forehead and the added bonus of doing a Hugh amount of damage to the brain and most likely other vital places.
           Granted this shot and some others may not be a good idea for civilians let alone LEO's because of archaic rules about letting the bad guys out arm you and then get wrapped in the "innocent until proved guilty mantle". But when you are fighting for your life or your loved ones lives then thinking outside the box is a good idea. They hide behind walls, shoot the damn wall, so it gets messed up? who cares a little spackle and some paint and no one no except the bad guy that thought a sheet rock wall was a good place to hide, Same for furniture, shot through it. Not a lot there to actually stop multiple rounds for getting at least one through. If you are outside, drop to the ground and look Under whatever there is between you and them. You might get lucky and get in a foot or leg shot
.
         I'm going to ruffle more than a few feathers with what I just said but think of it like this. Back in the day Armies thought that standing in a nice round in the open wearing colorful cloths was the only legitimate way to fight with honor. Sort of like mass dueling, They also thought that commoners taking out an Officer (Generals mostly) Knight or Royalty on purpose was totally outrageous and uncivilized. Ya well somewhere around 1776 the world woke up to the fact War was not a nice tit for tat Mass duel with rules and tea at 2pm. It's taken a while to get through to some folks that still think war is Honorable, NO it isn't, Fighting for your Family, Friends and Country is Honorable, war itself just sucks and the only thing that counts is surviving, and if that means shooting someone in the back then count on it, their dead. There is not one damn thing Civilized about war and killing people, most of them are the exact same as you, they just speak differently. Doesn't mean you would drink with them in "peace time". They are there for the same reason you are, because the politicians insisted the Diplomats are complete a-holes, and you/they drew the short straw. So they want to go home just as much as you do, but that most likely isn't going to happen, Somebody, Allways dies. Just don't let it be you
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 09:25:30 AM by GhostWarrior »
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b5.5dan

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2011, 11:46:45 AM »
Well put !  :cheesy:

Logan

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2011, 09:35:59 AM »
Ha, I recall the old western pistol flip. Good times. Didn't realize Andy Devine did that too though (fun actor).


I have to say that like b5.5dan that I would probably try to put as many into the body as I could until the attacker stopped, perhaps an attempt at a head shot. Sounds like I may want to practice some drills. I've looked into Jeff Cooper's work but most of the books are expensive (yes, I know, not worth more than my life), so haven't done it yet. Are there any books that would be definitely recommended besides or in addition to Cooper's?

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2011, 12:32:55 PM »
      I don't know of any really, I had a boat load of books on everything weapon and tactics, and how to make or improvise them, but about 5 or 6 years ago I gave them to the Local Sheriff's office training/bomb/swat teams. Or at least I tried. I did give them to a deputy that said he would deliver them to the  folks, no Idea if he did or that kept them or what. Pretty much everything I know I learned in the field as it were, and from hands on instructors over the course of years. I just try to keep in practice, and think of the worst possible scenario and work out how to deal with it. If you can hit something small as an eye or head currently and consistently and quickly then you can take advantage of any bigger areas you get presented with.

       Come to think of it, I think I saw a couple good teaching films on YouTube, They walk you through the correct stance and what is cover and what is protection. Two Very different things, I promise you. But I'm also betting that someone on here knows some very good reference sources for you to look up on-line and or read from a manual or book.
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b5.5dan

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2011, 02:02:32 PM »
Masaad Ayoob (spelling?) is one of the modern masters of practical firearm technique. Anything he writes can be taken as golden.

Logan

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2011, 02:04:53 PM »
Right, I should have mentioned him as well, as I'd been eying some of his books. Not sure which book would be the absolute best if I had to choose one though.

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: Modern Pistol Technique
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2011, 05:34:34 PM »
And Mr. Ayoob is beyond a doubt in my mind right there with all the world class shooters of all time.
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