Author Topic: CZ TSO Questions  (Read 10943 times)

Offline NMhvactech

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CZ TSO Questions
« on: July 24, 2017, 10:01:31 PM »
I just purchased a new Tactical Sport Orange in 40 for use in USPSA Limited but I have questions and concerns regarding the pistol. The plastic trigger, small safeties, the magwell is NOT blended well,
no info on the provided springs ( i.e. color coding, paperwork discussing to the measurements ) the internals are NOT fully polished, and I would prefer 4 mags.
Let me add I've been shooting highly modified S&W M&P 40's for the past 5-6yrs in limited, but I'm alway 2nd-5th place at our club matches to the guys running 2011's. I have only finished 1st place once! I contribute part is this to the weight difference helping control the muzzle flip and a its just a much better design. I do not and most likely will never buy a 2011 or other type of 1911 platform, prefer the polymer pistols variants. 
All that being said I own several CZ rifles and a CZ shotgun but no pistols. I've always wanted several CZ pistols for various uses, but mainly a CZC CTS 40 for limited. The TSO is a balance between the custom gun and factory gun that fits my budget and I happen upon this by one mistake.
I just think think that for $1700 CZ could have installed a metal trigger, blended the magwell, add a larger safety, and a 4th mag, I'd pay an $1800-$1850 for that.

Offline NMhvactech

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2017, 11:06:29 PM »
So my questions are does anyone else feel the plastic trigger flexing when shooting or dry firing? Do the mags catch a little on the frame from the magwell not being blended? My hands are smaller so it's awkward trying to manipulate the safety plus and there's no place to rest my thumb. I've watched videos but my case didn't include a dvd and I have no clue what any of spring rates are or what's best to tune the gun with. I have disassembled it and found several parts that didn't get polished. I just hate paying so much for a pistol and having to replace, alter, fix so many things.
All of that being said I've only had it for 2 weeks and shot it only twice in live fire and just about daily in dry fire and I can tell this pistols will run when I get more time behind it. I'm just wondering what anyone's else experience is replacing the trigger and safety? Any extra polishing? Blending the magwell? Recoil Springs for 170pf., main spring, basically tuning?
Any suggestions on shooting gear? I was thinking 3 more mags, Springer Precision mag base extensions with 10 coil springs and grams followers.
Holster - DAA Alpha X with muzzle support
Belt - DAA Premium with DAA racer mag pouches and DAA magnetic pouch.


Leo

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 11:01:03 PM »
When I decided to use a couple of TSOs in limited. I wanted to keep them as stock as possible to showcase the capability of the CZ platform. I emailed CZ USA regarding the provided spring weights but eventually decided to run cajun gun works springs anyway, so I don't have that information anymore. My only modifications are a 13lb recoil spring, 15lb main spring, modified rubber grips, a dawson front sight and blended grip/magwell. To answer your question about the plastic triggers, I still prefer the flat aluminum triggers but have not found the plastic ones to be a problem. If I ever need to replace the plastic triggers, I will do so with the aluminum ones but for right now the plan is to run these till failure.

Offline NMhvactech

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 01:57:08 PM »
Thank you for responding!!! So I called CZ and here's what they told me :
Trigger : They don't have any issues with the plastic trigger ( "It's good enough." ) and if I don't like it I can buy an factory replacement aluminum 19503 $50.
Magwell : The same thing about the magwell, it's blended "good enough."
Safety : We haven't had any complaints about it!
Magazines : 3 is all you really need for competition.
They told me if I had an issue I could send it in for warranty to look at it (6-12 weeks turn around )
At least they gave me the specs to the springs

Recoil springs : 16lb ( in the gun ), 13lb, & 11lb
Main springs :  20lb ( in the gun ), 16lb, & 13lb.

Offline NMhvactech

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 06:03:16 PM »
I'm going to change the trigger to the CZC TS aluminum trigger, order 3 more mags, but I'm unsure of changing the safety to the larger CZC as some people have said they have inadvertently clicked it to safe while firing. Does any anyone have experience with the LARGE aftermarket safety? Can you rest your thumb on it like a 1911?
Also what holster and gear are people using for the TSO? I was thinking of the New DAA Alpha X?

Leo

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 03:35:35 PM »
I'm going to change the trigger to the CZC TS aluminum trigger, order 3 more mags, but I'm unsure of changing the safety to the larger CZC as some people have said they have inadvertently clicked it to safe while firing. Does any anyone have experience with the LARGE aftermarket safety? Can you rest your thumb on it like a 1911?
Also what holster and gear are people using for the TSO? I was thinking of the New DAA Alpha X?


Because of how the safeties are fitted on the TSO,   Engaging the safety inadvertently happens a lot. I relieved mine a bit internally to allow some upward movement without disabling the gun. In the full up posisition, the safety works as advertised. When I ran the CTS' from CZ custom, the big oversized safety did not work for me. It forced my left hand lower on the pistol and dugged into my hand. I prefer the standard safety and the base of my left thumb is actually on the safety lever. A lot of people do it but riding the safety with your dominate hand thumb is not how to grip a pistol properly in my opinion.


As far as a holster, I personally use a kydex holster from Red Hill Tactical. They are a sponsor of mine and make the only kydex holster that will  accommodate the factory thumb rest. PM me if you are interested in buying one. I have a discount code for you to save 10% off.

Offline NMhvactech

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2017, 10:32:56 PM »
Thank you so much Leo for your info. I still have more questions though. After reading more here on this site and others and watching many videos, including most of yours Leo, I'm wondering about how you tuned your pistol? What are your reloads like, bullet, powder, oal, pf? Then you replaced the recoil spring to what felt best for the gun? Since I do Not have enough experience with hammer fired guns, how do you Determine the main spring weight? Did you do any other polishing to any parts?
Are there any other mods you recommend for the TSO?
How do you compare the TSO to the CTS? Which do you prefer for competition?


Does anyone have any experience with the Springer Precision base pads and Grams followers?








Offline NMhvactech

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2017, 10:43:09 PM »
By the way I looked up the Redhill Tactical holster, but they're 4-6 weeks out to make. I went a ead and order a DAA Alpha X holster with muzzle support, 3 DAA Racer pouches, and a Shooters Connection belt. I haven't been to the range yet with this setup, but I've been doing lots of dry fire and I'm liking it a lot. The Shooters Connection belt is Not as stiff as their old belt, but I'm going to try it, I might end up ordering the DAA Premium though as this new belt is about as stiff as my 10 year old CR Speed belt. I'm going to run the TSO with zero spring changes or mods for a couple of matches and some more practice sessions to get a base line.

Leo

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2017, 10:59:21 AM »
Thank you so much Leo for your info. I still have more questions though. After reading more here on this site and others and watching many videos, including most of yours Leo, I'm wondering about how you tuned your pistol? What are your reloads like, bullet, powder, oal, pf? Then you replaced the recoil spring to what felt best for the gun? Since I do Not have enough experience with hammer fired guns, how do you Determine the main spring weight? Did you do any other polishing to any parts?
Are there any other mods you recommend for the TSO?
How do you compare the TSO to the CTS? Which do you prefer for competition?


Does anyone have any experience with the Springer Precision base pads and Grams followers?


When I tune a pistol, I always follow a simple priority list when doing so.  1. Reliabilty.  It doesn't matter how good the gun feels or how accurate it is.  If it is not reliable, it is not cut out for any task you have designated for it. 2. Accuracy. The shooting sports is all about earning points. At times, tough shots at distance will be required and if my gun cannot accomplish this mechanically and/or a combination of my reload recipe,  it has no place for me in competition. 3. Performance and feel.  This area is different for everyone because of their own personal preference but for me a pistol has to cycle fast and allow me to track my front sight with ease.  I have ran different spring (recoil/mainspring) combinations and with some of those, it felt like I was waiting for the gun to return and settle. I want to be able to fire my next shot as soon as my sight are acceptable and if I am or am perceiving to be waiting, I am changing springs until that is no longer an issue.

Recoil and hammer (main) springs will change reliabilty and felt recoil and must be tested to suit the users preferences and loads. I think the majority of people understand how a recoil spring can change how the gun feels, feeds, ejects and allows the user to track the sights but an oversight is the main spring. Most people will associate the main spring to tuning the trigger weight and feel but it also will change all the things I talked about regarding the recoil spring. In terms of the movement of the slide (recoil and ejection) the main spring acts like a speed bump. The heavier the spring, the bigger the speed bump. I have tested different main springs with the attempt to deaden the sharp/violent impluse when running a very light recoil spring.  I have also tried it in reverse. Another thing to keep in mind, while in competition, unloaded starts are common and running a very heavy main spring paired with the small area of a CZ slide to grab onto can make for a difficult and failed attempt at loading the gun while on the clock.

As far as my reloads, I run 180 gr BBI bullets over 5.1 grs of WSF at 1.130 OAL.  This gets me at about 173 power factor. This area, like springs, should be tested by the end user. Every gun is different and will prefer certain bullets makes and weights. And you personally, might like a certain recoil impluse that a powder/bullet combination can provide.

My TSOs other than what I listed about are stock. I do. It feel they need much work or any more polishing.

When it comes to the CTS and TSO, I can't say I like one over the other. They are both very capable platforms. It the CTS offers exactly what you want, you can't go wrong. In my case a few things needed to be changed, like the oversized safety and rear sight, to make it work for me. The TSO offers a lot of performance for less and it has been nice runnning thr factory installed thumb rest. Where as you would need to get that retrofitted to another TS platform to make it work.

Offline NMhvactech

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 11:43:33 PM »
Thank you for all of your responses, but I still have more questions.
If you change the main spring weight do you need to change the firing pin spring as CGW's suggests? Is the longer firing pin needed? Did you blend the magwell any? What areas did you polish? I tend to do A LOT of polishing to most of my firearms internals, I'm just not sure if it will damage any of the heat treated parts or if the parts are machine tool parts?
How do you feel about the CGW replacement 10X barrel bushing?
Are you running the factory base pads or any aftermarket plus 3 mags and follower? Which base pads has anyone tried Henning, CZC, Springer Precision, M-Arms, or some other type?


Leo

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2017, 07:05:28 AM »
Thank you for all of your responses, but I still have more questions.
If you change the main spring weight do you need to change the firing pin spring as CGW's suggests? Is the longer firing pin needed? Did you blend the magwell any? What areas did you polish? I tend to do A LOT of polishing to most of my firearms internals, I'm just not sure if it will damage any of the heat treated parts or if the parts are machine tool parts?
How do you feel about the CGW replacement 10X barrel bushing?
Are you running the factory base pads or any aftermarket plus 3 mags and follower? Which base pads has anyone tried Henning, CZC, Springer Precision, M-Arms, or some other type?


FIRING PIN/SPRING. In my experince, the lightened firing pin spring is needed if you are running a very low weight main spring and primers that are on the harder side.  I have tried the CGW reduced FP spring, but now would just cut a full coil off of a factory spring. As for the extended firing pin, it doesnt hurt to run one, but if you are having success with the factory length pin there is no need to change it.


BLENDING GRIP/magwell. Yes, I absolutely blended the magwell and grip. If I had one legitmate complaint about the TSO, this would be it.  [size=78%] [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]INTERNAL POLISHING. I did not do any internal polishing. I don't feel these gun needs any attention internally. Be very careful what and how you polish things. One area I would high recommend against touching is the hammer hooks and sear.  If you are unhappy with the hammer and sear engagement try the adjustable sear from CGW. [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]CGW 10X BUSHING.  I think they are great. I had one installed on one of CTS' (model before they started adding the accu bushing).  It was an improvement over the factoy bushing, accuracy improved and is drop in part. I will be putting the CGW bushing into these guns when they need new bushings. [/size]


MAGAZINES. I use the CZC pads, 10 coil springs and followers. I get 21 rounds, reloadable, with this set up.  The only other experience I have had with other pads/springs, is through a friend who tried the springer pads with the grams spring and follower. I can't remember what issues he had with them but I do know those magazines have turned into his dedicated dryfire practice mags. 
[/size]

Offline IDescribe

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2017, 03:13:44 PM »
I have no pistol with a competition-oriented magwell/funnel.  I have always believed, when I've read about blending, that the process was purely cosmetic.  NMHVACTech suggests it's functional.  LEO doesn't say one way or another.

Is magwell blending functional?  Or simply cosmetic?

Leo

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2017, 05:12:52 PM »
I have no pistol with a competition-oriented magwell/funnel.  I have always believed, when I've read about blending, that the process was purely cosmetic.  NMHVACTech suggests it's functional.  LEO doesn't say one way or another.

Is magwell blending functional?  Or simply cosmetic?


The reason and the purpose is for function. Without doing so, the edges of the top of the magazine would catch/snag the portion of the frame that isn't blended to the magwell causing missed reloads at speed. 

Offline NMhvactech

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2017, 11:51:16 PM »
Exactly as Leo said, every polymer pistol I have used, I either blended the magwell and/or frame to have better mag loading if and when my mag changes get sloppy. To me this has less to do with asthetics and is more about function. The TSO's magwell to frame is poorly blended ( if Not At all ) which in dry fire and mag changes I keep snagging lip of the mags on the frame!!! For a $1700 semi-custom pistol, I'm Most upset about this part. I realize almost all pistols need to be tune and tinkered with to meet the needs of the of the end user but I think CZ could have done a much better job on this.
The reason I have so many questions is I have been using polymer pistols ( mostly Striker fire ) for so long that I just don't have any experience with steel hammer fired guns. Also I want to cut to the chance and narrow down to what works instead of spend lots of time and money tinkering!!!


Thank you Leo for all of help!!! I enjoyed watching your YouTube videos and I can't wait for more. Are you shooting Master or GM? As for me I'm a low B shooter hoping to move to A, which I'm sure requires more time than I have to put into training. Do you think you'll post any videos on your gun and gear or informative type videos?

Leo

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Re: CZ TSO Questions
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2017, 06:53:01 AM »
Thank you Leo for all of help!!! I enjoyed watching your YouTube videos and I can't wait for more. Are you shooting Master or GM? As for me I'm a low B shooter hoping to move to A, which I'm sure requires more time than I have to put into training. Do you think you'll post any videos on your gun and gear or informative type videos?


I hold a GM card in production division and will eventually make a push for it in limited. I don't have any plans on making any videos covering my guns, gear, etc or any other informative/instructional videos at this time.  What would you like to see?  I would be happy to put a video together for a topic or gear as longs as there is a demand for it.