Author Topic: 1st range trip with CZ70  (Read 6823 times)

Powerpuff boy

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1st range trip with CZ70
« on: September 26, 2012, 11:16:57 PM »
Finally I went to the range with the CZ70 and the CZ83 (another post).  I had not been to the range for more than 3 months.  A bit rusty.  First, I shot 100 rounds with Kadet Kit.  Then I proceeded to the CZ70. 

(Getting started...)
Got 2 boxes of S&B .32ACP (73 grain).   I loaded 8 rounds into the magazine using Den's loader  (the spring was stiff. Eventually I could load 9 rounds), inserted the mag into the gun, racked the slide and.....FTF.... Doh!.   No matter, no matter....  The gun was sleeping  for years, after all.    Now, the 1st round went into the chamber... Good.  Not too smooth.  But it went in.    (this only happened at the very beginning.  After that, it cycled like  clockwork. No problem whatsoever.)    OK, ready to shoot.

(How did the gun shoot?)
This gun shoots like a little sister of the CZ82.   Very accurate and controllable.   See the links. 
FYI, I started at 3 m - approx 10 feet. Targets 1 through 8.   Then I move the target a bit further to approx 3.5m -12 feet - Targets 1-4 in the second sheet.

First  64-70 rounds at 3 m.
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u428/Saltriver42/CZ%2070%20and%20CZ%2083%201st%20range%20trip/CZ%2070%20shooting/CZ7083Sep2220121sttry001.jpg

The rest at 3.5 m.
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u428/Saltriver42/CZ%2070%20and%20CZ%2083%201st%20range%20trip/CZ%2070%20shooting/CZ7083Sep2220121sttry002.jpg

Each target (if you are so inclined...)
http://s1067.photobucket.com/albums/u428/Saltriver42/CZ%2070%20and%20CZ%2083%201st%20range%20trip/CZ%2070%20shooting/

As you can see, it is very capable of good accuracy/grouping.  The best grouping of the day....
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u428/Saltriver42/CZ%2070%20and%20CZ%2083%201st%20range%20trip/CZ%2070%20shooting/CZ70Sep2220121sttry004.jpg

This gun is plenty accurate.  It is the human element that needs some work as usual (practice, practice, practice...)

The gun also has rather stout recoil, just like the 82.   After 70th round or so, the web of my hand was red.  It was getting a little uncomfortable.  After 90th round, I had to stop shooting to shake it  off. 
 I strongly suspect that the strong recoil, to a degree, was caused by the gun's worn-out recoil spring.   So I ordered a replacement spring here:
https://www.buymilsurp.com/recoil-spring-10-cz50-cz70-cz50-cz70-czech-pistol-p-367.html

Today the replacement recoil spring arrived.   I was surprised at its length.  It is much longer than the one that came with the gun.
http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u428/Saltriver42/CZ%2070/CZ70recoilsprings003.jpg

If you get the 70, it may be worthwhile to get a replacement recoil spring. (may improve your shooting.  If not,, you will have a spare.)

The trigger (SA) was pretty serviceable after the trigger job.   Sure it is still heavy.  But it won't affect your shooting.
The front sight is rather small.  But for a gun from that era, it is expected.   And the gun is very reliable.  Oh,  I forgot to test the decocker.  I will do that next time.

(What do you think of the gun?)
 If you are a collector of CZ guns, by all means, go for it.  Around $160, it shoots like the 82.   She is lots of gun for that price.  I think you would enjoy the gun for target practice/plinking, especially if you like the 82.

(For CC?) 
That depends on how comfortable  you are with .32 ACP cartridge.  If you are, I won't stop you from carrying the 70. :grin:   It may not have too much firepower.   But it has accuracy in abundance.  I think you can get very good placement out of this gun.     I REALLY would not like it, if this baby were  aimed at my eye socket !

(Compared to 82/83?)
If I had to choose one, either the 70 or the 82/83, then I would have to give more thought to that.

Here is the thing: As I said,  the gun shoots like a little 82.   Imagine  Makrov is chambered in .32, and  you would not be far off.   So if you like the way this gun shoots, why not go for the 82 itself?   It has more firepower.  On the other hand, if you are wary of the 82 (or Makrov), you may be better off with the 83.   The 70 is very controllable.  But the 83 is even more so.  As a bonus, it has more firepower, too. 
This gun's niche is for those who like the way the 82 shoots, but find Makarov a bit too much.

The edges of the 70 over the 82/83 are its price and the fact that .32 ACP may be less expensive than .380 or Makarov.  (and it is more concealable.  YMMV).   On other aspects (firepower, ergonomics, spares/magazine availability), the 82/83 have an edge IMHO.   But hey, each on his own.   It is you who are shooting it, not I.   :wink:

I am pretty happy with the gun, though. If you get that kind of accuracy and reliability for around $160, you can't complain.   Only if I can lessen the recoil somewhat....  I would keep shooting it all day long.   :cheesy:

Cheers.

CZ04FT

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2012, 11:14:19 AM »
That's is some pretty good shooting. You're comments about the 70 pretty much apply to the 50 as well.

cameramon

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2012, 08:41:49 PM »
Thorough report, Masa. Thanks!

lilmule

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 06:31:10 PM »
32 acp is a good round accurate and when using the higher euro stuff 179-205 fpe.
Been wanting to get one a 70 but ended up getting a pa 63.much like a single stack version of the 82

lklawson

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2012, 11:03:34 AM »
32 acp is a good round accurate and when using the higher euro stuff 179-205 fpe.
Been wanting to get one a 70 but ended up getting a pa 63.much like a single stack version of the 82
It's definitely worth having if you're a fan of CZ guns, .32ACP cal guns, or PP/K derived handguns.

The PA-63 doesn't feel a lot like a single-stack '82 to me.  It feels very unique.  Not bad, mind you, just different.  :)

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

lilmule

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2012, 11:27:15 AM »
Would have to agree it doesnt feel like one but about as close as one can get to a single stack version not near as fat in the grips.
Myself would love to have a p64 but in 32 acp,not possible I dont think,so at some point or time a cz 70 or ap63 is in order.May after firing this PA63 get one anyway depends upon the recoil.
Sort of using it as a test bed,for alterations making it a bit more suitable for cc.
With that ammo s and b or fiochi your putting out from160-179-205 fpe(60 grain) or can be its hot,so some recoil should be expected.Thats 13 in penetration fmj,equal to most 380 using us ammo non sd special loads or snubbie 38 with non +p.
Its not a pipsqeek 32 acp load,,and still accurate bet you cn hit a pop can on end  at 50 ft even with those small sights.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2012, 11:45:32 AM by lilmule »

lklawson

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2012, 11:41:02 AM »
Would have to agree it doesnt feel like one but about as close as one can get to a single stack version not near as fat in the grips.
There are several 9x18 Makarov cal guns in singlestack.  I have 3 different ones, the PA-63, P64, and a Norinco Type 59 (Makarov PM made in China).  If you lived closer to Dayton, I'd go shooting with you and you could try them all out.

I still lack the P83.  It's on my list.  :)

Quote
Myself would love to have a p64 but in 32 acp,not possible I dont think,
Well, a really good custom smith could convert the P64 to .32ACP.  It'd take a custom barrel, new recoil spring, and he'd have to fake something up for the magazines, but it's all possible.  Bring your wallet.  ;) 

An alternative would be a PP/K in .32ACP.  I think they're making the new ones in .32ACP as well as .380ACP.  Certainly less expensive than custom work.

Quote
so at some point or time a cz 70 or ap63 is in order.May after firing this PA63 get one anyway depends upon the recoil.
Sort of using it as a test bed,for alterations making it a bit more suitable for cc.
The recoil on the PA63 is stout due to the facts that it is 1) a simple blowback gun and 2) aluminum frame.

The CZ-70 is way way more comfortable to shoot.  It's accurate as the day is long.  I like the 3 position safety too and that it can go Condition One.  Unfortunately, range fodder is 20-30% more expensive.  :(

It's one of those rounds that if you intend to shoot a lot, reloading starts to look better and better.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Powerpuff boy

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2012, 12:16:55 PM »
I am heading back to the range with a replacement recoil spring installed.   I think it would make a difference to shooting feeling.   Stay tuned.  :cheesy:

lilmule

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2012, 12:52:41 PM »
The ppk if one has 50-600 is a great pistol in 32acp,one of the reasons cz70 etc are so popular is close design to them and cheap.
Have a lead on a crvena zestava model 70,that is sa baby tok most of these com block guns in either 32 acp or 9x18 make decent cc weapons when gone over.
Any older steel pocket  pistol will put out and can shoot hotter ammo than its modern plastic lightweight counterpart.32acp can be from 160-205 fpe,equal to a plastic short barreled 380 any day.
Most of those having fpe or chamber ratings,somewhat limiting their use,just nice to carry flat and 6-10 oz.

lklawson

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2012, 05:28:50 PM »
Any older steel pocket  pistol will put out and can shoot hotter ammo than its modern plastic lightweight counterpart.32acp can be from 160-205 fpe,equal to a plastic short barreled 380 any day.
The measured FPE of the .380ACP from a Kel Tec P3AT turns out to be in nearly the exact same range as the measured FPE of the .32ACP from the Kel Tec P32, roughly the 150 FPE range at the median.  The P3AT tops out in these at ~180 FPE.

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/32acp/gel32acp.htm
http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/380acp/gel380acp.htm

The barrel length of the P32 is 2.7".  The barrel length of the CZ-50/70 is ~3.5".  According to Ballistics By The Inch, .32ACP in a 2" bbl has between 82 FPE and 134 FPE.  The .380ACP in a 2" bbl has between 145 and 181 FPE

The 3" bbl gives the .32ACP 101-153 FPE and the .380ACP yields 170 - 205 FPE.

At 4" the .32ACP gets, at best, 178 FPE which gives a median energy rating of ~165 FPE for the estimated 3.5" bbl which is still a bit below the best performer in the P3AT with its 2.7" bbl but a little better than the median.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

lilmule

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2012, 08:04:07 PM »
I often read that link,but different ammos produce different fpe and fps
Dont recall Fiocchi 60 grain jhp as being tested
  • Caliber:  32 ACP
  • Bullet Weight:  60  Grains
  • Bullet Style:  Jacketed Hollow Point
  • Case Type: Brass   


  •  Ballistics Information: 
     
  • Muzzle Velocity:  1200   fps 
  • Muzzle Energy:     205   ft. lbs.
  • out of a 3.2 ppk barrel
  • Dont stick that in your plastic wonder they are light neat and flat great cc pistol  but not designed generally for high fpe ammo
  • Yes agree the shorter the barrel the less fpe,thus small handy modern plastic short pistols dont do as well as longer steel ones of yesteryear-just easier to carry around as lighter
  • and a 32acp steel longer barrel puts out or can from 180 to 205 at ratings on the boxes,fmj or jhp every bit as much as a short plastic 380 without special defense ammo.
  • Every one is sold out of it currently be dec before i can get any will chrono some out of my Llama 32acp 3.6 barrel.In both fmJ amd jhp in s and B and fiocchi
  • Same companies make lower fpe stuff as well like 130,more suited to beretta tomcats and p for plastic.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2012, 08:29:10 PM by lilmule »

lklawson

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2012, 09:11:31 PM »
I have a friend researching WWII and pre-WWII documentation, particularly German, who is convinced that both .32ACP and .380ACP ammunition from this era was loaded significantly hotter than SAAMI max.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

lilmule

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Re: 1st range trip with CZ70
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2012, 10:11:27 PM »
Would have to agree war time ammo was hotter all of it but german in particular,not concerned about a few problems.The caliber 32 acp in europe has always been  loaded hotter than our american and only americans consider it anemic.
The ammo you specked is also frag ammo specialized that works well under lab conditions,yet not in real life,odds are dump the ammo out on a table at least two will come apart  from the casing,cycle the remaining  18 thru the gun as they come out more will also split,with about half of those fired splitting prior to hitting much of anything.Yet even those are under what the top euro rds put out.160-179-205 for about the top three found so far,sammi specs as well.
All three of those rounds claim 12-13 in penetration,will I want to shoot 205 much,doubt it,160 most likly maybe 179 ,those should be about equal to normal 380 rds,not hot.My 9x18 I picked up today is rated 219.
Just guessing the 205 in slightly longer cz barrel be like firing a p64,in many ways.