Author Topic: .22 LR "Match Grade"  (Read 1043 times)

Offline GhostWarrior

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.22 LR "Match Grade"
« on: June 10, 2016, 03:23:51 PM »
           Ok, here's a question, which is more or less most likely just being "Picky". So, here's the thing, I was looking around for some "Match" grade .22's (actually not just .22 LR's, but also for .22 WMR and .17 HMR) and I haven't seen any "Match Grade for the WMR or the HMR (Yet) but I keep fining .22 LR rounds that say they are "Match Grade" but they are Lead, not Copper wash or copper jacketed. Not only are they simply LRN but they (Some brands) are bulk loaded loose in boxes, as many as a 1000 ct in a box. To me Lead is easy to nick, scratch, dent, mash the RN out of shape and so on, so how can they be considered "Match Grade" anything when the odds are high that they all won't group close as what to me Match Grade should mean?

          So what am I missing? How can Lead Nose anything be accurate? let alone accurate enough to meet my definition of Match? Unless my definition is not correct. Which frankly won't surprise me in the least. Which is why I started off saying This could be nit picky.

          And also, do they even make Match Grade .22 WMR or .17 HMR rounds? and anyone have a favorite mfg of any of the three calibers?
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Offline noylj

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Re: .22 LR "Match Grade"
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2016, 03:48:59 PM »
This is regarding pistols, so things may vary for rifles:
The only "match" ammo I care about is the one that gives me <1" groups at 25 yards.
All "Match" usually means is that they are claiming to take more care about bullet weight and case dimensions--particularly the rim thickness.
For me, some of the most accurate has been cheap ammo--Hansensold some really great super-greasy but accurate ammo about 15 years ago produced in Hungary and Wolf Match Target has been excellent.
When I tested a bunch of .22s years ago, Rem Target gave me " at 25 yards, Wolf Match Target was good for 0.55-0.65", Hansen was good for 0.72-0.76", and Eley Standard and Tenex gave me 1.68-1.69" groups. Fiocchi MaxAc gave me 2.26" and Fed. Champion was good for 2.46".
This does NOT mean, however, that you would get the same results in YOUR gun.
The thing about .22 LR has always been that you have to test a wide range of brands and, when you find one that you like, stock up on that particular LOT NUMBER.
Finally, never fire groups without first firing at least ten rounds through a clean barrel. It has been reported that Olympic shooters seldom, if ever, clean their barrels and claim it can take a LOT of rounds to get the barrel seasoned and accurate again.


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You don't think lead bullets can be accurate?The most important part of a bullet for accuracy is the BASE. Lead wins pistol matches [size=78%]and, in my experience, is almost always more accurate than copper-washed bullets (never found a copper-washed bullet that was accurate enough for match shooting and I don't think I have ever seen jacketed or plated bullets in .22 LR) or plated bullets.[/size]
[size=78%]So, for those that keep claiming that lead bullets lead the barrel and aren't accurate at velocities over 800 fps, please look at your .22 LRs.[/size]
« Last Edit: August 06, 2016, 10:16:54 AM by noylj »

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: .22 LR "Match Grade"
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2016, 05:00:47 PM »
Outstanding!

        Thank you for your reply. I am printing it out and will see about getting batches of the different MFGS/Brands you listed.

          My reservations about lead projectiles, revolves around the (read my theory) theory that if the projectile is out of shape in anyway then the scratch, grove, or dent, whatever would through off the aerodynamics of the round making it unstable. I am basing this theory on the way they built anything that runs in High Speed situations, People go to a Lot of trouble to male the surfaces dead flat (Pardon the pun, but I think it's funny) so that there is a major minimum of drag. Granted cars so far haven't hit sonic levels yet, or at least ones that don't have jet engines, but ammunition does that all the time. And I have yet to see any round made for snipers (no I am NOT a Sniper, not even a good long gunner, I am just using that as an example) or even big game hunters or any hunters that look for accuracy use lead nosed rounds. I'm just playing devils advocate here. No one else has answered this question and it's been up for about a week now. I am in fact printing out your message and will buy as many of the brands as I can. I just question how lead acts and works, especially further than 25 yards, I what to learn to hunt, or at least use my long gun(s), and I don't want to have any way to blame anyone but my self for missing. I REALLY bite at shooting long guns, and I want to learn to shoot one as well as I shoot my pistols before I start my dirt nap, and since I am 65, that could be anytime.

GW
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Offline noylj

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Re: .22 LR "Match Grade"
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2016, 11:37:45 AM »
One would think many things, but then one has to look at what is being done in the real world.
When I cast my own bullets, I learned that with my handgun shooting at 50 yards or less, even a horrible looking cast bullet was accurate--as long as the edge from bearing surface to bullet base was free of any wrinkle/dent.
Now, for shooting beyond 100 yds (rifle and handgun silhouette, the bullets needed to be near perfect.

There are also a large number of folks who will tell you that lead bullets will lead up the barrel if you exceed 800 fps and, even more strenuously, that soft swaged lead bullets will lead up barrel if you shoot them over 800 fps--at velocities up to 1300 fps.
The sad thing is, cast lead bullets at what is now considered soft (10-13 BHN) worked for everything up to and including .44 Mag and swaged bullets, if they ever were nearly pute lead, now use alloys fron 95/5 to 92/6/2.
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Offline Rodolfo Fierro

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Re: .22 LR "Match Grade"
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2016, 09:35:46 AM »
Twenty some years ago I collected every kind of .22 ammo that I could find.  I tested more that a dozen different boxes of ammo in two guns.  I used a Marlin model 60 and a Ruger 10/22  The results were quite surprising.  Some of the cheaper ammo did better in one gun that expensive "Match" ammo.  Test showed me that Winchester Standard Velocity gave the best results with the Marlin as the match grade of any brand that I tested.  My conclusion was that you have to determine the best ammo for your particular gun. 

Offline noylj

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Re: .22 LR "Match Grade"
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2016, 10:11:13 AM »
>My conclusion was that you have to determine the best ammo for your particular gun.

And buy EVERY box of that lot number you can find, as the next lot number can be very different.

Offline Rodolfo Fierro

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Re: .22 LR "Match Grade"
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2016, 02:28:53 PM »
The Marlin model 60 was my dad's.  It had just had the trigger done by my favorite smith.  I gave it back to him with a single batch of a thousand rounds of the Winchester ammo (that tested as good as the first results).  He raved about the gun for the rest of his life and never ran out of ammo. 

Offline GhostWarrior

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Re: .22 LR "Match Grade"
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2016, 05:43:39 PM »
            Thank you for your respective answers, and now I know better. I enjoyed reading the answers, and learning something that works for somethings doesn't mean it works that way for everything. I do appreciate both of you, your help and participation on this Forum.

            I appear to be apologizing a lot lately for not being more attentive and this is no different, so my apologies for taking so long to answer. Things have been hectic here, which is what tends to happen when at least I try to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Thanks

GW
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