Reloads vs Factory Ammo.

[Canuckhab]

I have had a running dispute with my closest friend regarding purchasing reloads from various reputable ammunition folks rather than from well known national ammo makers (ie Winchester). I shoot some higher end CZs and Kimbers in 9mm and 45 ACP and he states that they will ruin my pistols. Now, I have purchased reloads from an ammo supplier in Georgia and have found them trouble free. Today at a local gun show in Florida I engaged discussion with a man for a small ammo distributor who knew a lot about his reloading craft and convinced me of his expertise. So I bought again in bulk. If I can save money and support the little guy, then maybe Wal-mart will not be so powerful. OK enough philosophy. The question I keep asking my friend is why he doesn't approve of reloads. And all I get in reply is some vague answer about ruining my guns or my gun blowing up. So I turn to the web for an answer and all I learn is how to reload for myself and that it can or cannot save money, depending on blah, blah, ........ So I turn to my CZ community which has been very helpful. Are any of you aware of specific problems with reloads as opposed to factory direct ammo, and what are they? Thanks for any feedback. 

[chfields]

I'm no expert by far, however, the issue with reloads, if you don't do them yourself, is whether they have used the proper amount of powder. I have seen instances where someone double loaded the cartridge and destroyed a gun. It doesn't happen often though...If you reload yourself alot then it pays, otherwise, its cheaper to buy from Walmart. Hope this helps and I'm sure someone else will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong...

[Rodolfo Fierro]

The worry about reloads is were they made right.  Was the brass cleaned completely?  The 9mm & 380 ammo that I make will not hold a double charge, the powder fills the case to about 90% of what it will hold.
   The real danger is a poor or no crimp.  The bullet getting stuffed back inside the case causes the pressure generated inside the case to increase to a dangerous level.  A commercial re-loader will know this.  A nice guy at the range may not know.  I do not hesitate to buy reloaded ammo, but I will not accept "free" reloads.

[GhostWarrior]

Canuckhab: question-Do you live anywhere reasonably close to Orlando that won't make you have to drive an hour and spend to much on gas to justify? chfields and I go shooting on Sundays or Mondays or at least he does. Sometimes like the past month I don't get to go anywhere. So anyway was wondering if you would like to shoot with us?
 
       Oh and I'm going to start reloading my own as soon as I finish reading up on how to do it properly. Only about 3 Tome's left to read . Anyway we can maybe all get together split the cost and work and it becomes a win-win-win?

[Rodolfo Fierro]

I may have already recommended this book.  Anyhow it is a good primer on reloading without the usual pratice of only recommending one brand of equipment.
http://materials.nrahq.org/go/product.aspx?productid=EF%2013527
 
 

[DeeDubya]

Lyman's Reloading manual is also fair to other manufacturers. Obviously they represent their own equipment but list a number of bullet and powder manufacturers. I think my latest is #49 but I'm sure there's a more current one.
 
My steadfast rule is: I don't accept reloads from an individual nor do I sell or give my reloads to someone. The stakes are too high. What if you carefully loaded some 44 magnum revolver ammo for a hunting bud and during a practice session he fired a squib load (that he got no telling where, after all he's shooting your handloads too) which stuck a bullet in the barrel. Now he chambers one of your near max hunting rounds and blows the gun up. It's totally not your fault but who's gonna get the blame?
 
There are some commercial reloads (as the OP mentions) that IMO are safe because they basically go through the same process as new ammo.

[GhostWarrior]

            Thanks guys, I wasn't planning of anyone but us (whom ever that "us" is). Since we would be working together and taking turns at each step or group of steps, I'm thinking we are covered. But I'll make REAL sure that whom ever does go in with me on this, knows it's going to be a Cardinal Rule NOT to give ANY of our ammo to anyone. Maybe not even family. Certainly not outside from the immediate family anyway.  Think that would do it? We could even work up a sort of contract that says something along those lines and every one signs it. We file the original and everyone gets copies initialed by all the others, so those also become more or less original copies. I suppose it will need to sort out division of costs to split between the ones that use what ever caliber someone else uses, and not have to pay for all the calibers that person doesn't use? Did that make sense? I could even notarize theirs I think but not mine. Noteries here can't notarize anything for them selves. But I can legally do the marriage thing for couples.    I wonder where I could get a Dr Demento custom or an Elvis Suit?

          Anyway the Lee and RCB Books are 2 of the Tomes I was talking about, but I'll be sure to order that NRA one also.

[Angryvikingman]

IF any of you guys got a type 6 FFL for ammo manufacture, I found a place where you can get components by the TON. Lol! You can only order from them if you have the type 6.

[DeeDubya]

What's a Type 6? Just for ammo manufacture or does it include other small arms classes before it, like Class 3?

[GhostWarrior]

            In the past, way back before time began, if you had any kind of FFL it ment the happy and fun folks at BATFE could stop by any time night or day and check your records. (Mostly that applied to folks with FFL for or from their homes. Since it's a little tough to just drop by a brick and mortar business at 0200 and expect anyone to be there). I don't know what the rules are theses days and from the something I saw online about FFL Classes/getting help, yesterday and the hoops you have to jump through, it dosen't make me want to run out and grab me up an FFL of my very own.
 
        So 2 questions, to wit: (or is that halfwit? I can never remember?)
 
       1)   If I decide to, in my old age and dwindling mental acumen, to apply for and get and FFL 1-3. Does the BATFE still get to drop by your home for a cup of tea anytime at all day or night, no warning (like they ever gave a warning), and do an inspection?
 
        2) is the class 6 FFL handled the same way?
 
       It's just that as a rule of thumb I tend to get a bit cranky when I get woken up in the middle of the night, and I would hate to offend them by being rude, for taking a somewhat negative attitude for doing so? (or even a party for that matter, cause if could get sort of funny if they showed up in the middle of a Wesson Party) Bonus points. Anyone know what I might by Wesson Party? or should say old enough to remember what one was/is.
 
        Sort of like "Hi Guys!! Nice you could drop in, careful where you walk, cause that stuff is really slippery, and just ignore the naked people, they probably won't even notice you are here."

[Angryvikingman]

LOL @ wesson party.

A way for you to fix them dropping by your house at any time of day or night besides established business hours is to get a small out building, or shipping container and register it with the post office as a seperate address. Put a mailbox out front, then you get your FFL and put that address as the business address. If they walk to your house and knock on the door, you can still tell them to gtfo off your property. Just be sure to post business hours. (Saturday from 1pm-1:30pm. LOL!) If you're not there, just put one of those "closed, be back by" clock signs on the front and remove the clock hands. LOL! Just be sure that the interior complies with all BATFE storage regulations. (A lockable room for all weapons, and paperwork.)
 
As for they types of FFLs and what you can do with them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License
If you're not going to export, I don't think that you have to register with ITAR.

[GhostWarrior]

               OK here's the thing. I just spent a goodly part of the day looking up costs for every componet of making a round, and then dividing the cost by the quantity (210.00 per 1000=?) and getting a single componet price. then taking all those componets prices and adding them together and every single time I come up with reloads costs more than factory made rounds, except for one time.
 
               I used to think I wasn't stupid, and although my math skills may leave something to be desired, I still know how to break down bulk into individual pieces, add them up and get a final cost minus labor and overhead. I used to be a very good contractor when my company bid on Gov contracts. I even got down to how much thread was used to make an inch of stitches depending of what the stitch called for.
 
               But today all I got was that home made rounds actually cost more than factory, and I don't think I was using anything top of the line components. Just using 124 gr 9mm FMJ w/5.6 grs of powder and parts got me to .421 cents, and a thousand rounds of Federal American 9mm 124 per thousand comes to .215 cents per round.
 
             What the hell am I doing wrong????!! Everyone I talk to says that the difference between reloads and factory should be between 20 and 40 % in my favor. I seem to be getting 50% in their favor? Did I miss something? And I didn't figure the whole thing out but leaving out the brass for the second and third reloads so maybe that makes difference enough to justify reloading? which I just did a quick check on and I still come out costing more than factory made.
 
             And if I actually tried to add in labor let alone overhead, (cost of press and shipping and depreciation on the equipment, and "rent" for the space I'm using) it gets really out of whack. What am I doing wrong? There has to be something I'm over looking?

[chfields]

My calculations for 1000 bullets, brass, primers and powder comes out to $165.09 or .165 per round on the lowest figures of the sheet I made for us....Am I missing something, other than equip, labor, rent, etc???
 

IRF9MMMM Mixed Head Stamp per 1000 - UNPROCESSEDYes$48.00

BRY19324BERRYS 9MM (.356) 124 GR RN-DS (1000)Yes$72.99

WINWSP *WIN SMALL PISTOL PRIMERS (1000)Yes$26.00

ACC1680-01 *ACCURATE 1680 - 1 LB.$18.10

Granted this is using mixed once fired brass rather than new, as new brass is about $189 for 1000 rnds and you can get Federal for $215 for 1000 rnds

[GhostWarrior]

             I forgot about the once used mixed, that is the one that got the price to drop to what every one says it's supposed to be. Thanks for reminding me.

[chfields]

No problem!! What are friends for.....